Chalkhills Digest Volume 1, Issue 211
Date: Thursday, 16 April 1992
Chalkhills, Number 211
Thursday, 16 April 1992
Today's Topics:
Thumbnail History?
general comments
Encouraging Japanese News
What do you call that noise that you put on?
Burning with Criticism's Flames? Relax, folks.
"ELVIS"
on a lighter note...
the flame war continues
Omnibus Takes All of US
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Treefrog@cup.portal.com Subject: Thumbnail History? Date: Wed, 15 Apr 92 22:31:23 PDT Hey, I'm a (fairly) recent devotee of the band (have Mummer, Big Express, Skylarking, O&L, Rag&Bone, and the Duke's compilation) and fully intend to collect the rest of the catalog. What I'd like, and hope someone will be kind enough to supply, is a sort of thumbnail sketch of the band's history. Personnel changes in relation to albums, especially. Just want to know what the lineup has been and when it changed, which albums were done with drum machine and who the "session" drummers have been since the departure of good old what's-his-name they're drummer (I'm not that knowledgable yet :). Any help would be greatly appreciated, and btw I'm going to love Nonsuch to some degree or other no matter what (well, I guess if it sounded like the DeFranco Family I'd reconsider). peace and thanks. Edward ************************************************************************ * "I would glady risk feeling bad at times * Edward Thomas Keller * * if it also meant I could taste my * Treefrog@cup.portal.com * * dessert." * * * - Lt. Cmdr. Data * The Whethermen * * ST:TNG * * ************************************************************************
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: William Carroll <wcarroll@encore.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 07:48:46 EST Subject: general comments First, let me remind everyone of something I'm sure their mother told them at one time or another: (in very stern, parenting tone) "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!" From: "John M. Relph" <relph@presto.ig.com> > >Andy is quoted in the latest issue of _Reflex_ magazine as saying, "I >mean, things haven't changed for some people. I still get letters >>from this little fellow up the north of England that say, `Oh, _White >Music_ were your best album, and I still remember seein' ya at >sooch-and-sooch cloob. . .' So, you've become the scenery for this >bloke's personal time machine." Perhaps we should all re-read this and ponder it a little. From: Steve Levenstein <70750.1117@compuserve.com> > > Having had a chance to listen to some of Nonsuch, I'm >happy to say that (in my opinion) the "dump Dudgeon doomsayers" >are over-reacting. Sure, Gus produced it, but he didn't mix >it, and he sure didn't write and perform the music! Another comment that should be pondered a bit before starting up the flame thrower. From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com> > >in the latest little express, dave gregory says he's seen printouts of >chalkhills and finds it odd that we slag off O&L while praising The >Big Express even though both are "very produced." well, i think what >dave is missing is that while both _are_ elaborate productions, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I love this! Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic knows more about XTC's music than one of the members of the group! From: Karlelvis.Macrae@ebay.sun.com > >From: tim@cs.georgetown.edu (Tim Snyder) >> >>This is the first XTC album to >>come out since I discovered the band in a real sense, in the winter of 1989, > > Ah, well, that tells me something. Someday, when the glow of > newness is off it all, you'll be able to go back and evaluate > these records with more objectivity, and you'll see what I > mean. Ah yes, the "I've listened to them longer, therefore my opinions should take precedence" attitude. Why does the date you first hear something determine your ability to critically judge it? William R. Carroll (Encore Computer, Ft. Lauderdale FL) wcarroll@encore.com "We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized. I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization." -Petronius Arbiter, 210 BC
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: wilson@psylo.enet.dec.com Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 07:52:18 PDT Subject: Encouraging Japanese News In the last issue of Chalkhills, Steve Levenstein writes: >Subject: Nonsuch in (Tokyo) stores! + >Well, didn't we all know that Nonsuch would be released on >April 14th... NOT!! Uh-huh, called Virgin Canada today, and >Nonsuch will now be released April 27th (PLUS a day or three >to get it in the stores). I heard that's the American release >date, too. Wonder what kind of different cover the Yanks'll >get... Trust the Japanese to one-up everyone else again: >Nonsuch is on sale there NOW, in a gorgeous red & gold >silk-screened CD jewel box! This is *good news*, since I went ahead and ordered it from a US/Japanese importer about two weeks ago. It could be in my mailbox now (I hope!). I'm not paying much attention to the comments about the album yet, since I haven't heard it yet and I want to form my own likings and dislikings without prejudice. I will say this, though, about the CD EP: Compare the demo version of "Smartest Monkeys" with the Dudgeon-produced version. One improvement I see is the little string synth part added after Colin sings, "Well, man converted the newspaper to a blanket (da DA da da DA da da DA da da DA da da, etc.)." This "cutesy" effect, not in the demo, is really a good way to offset the depressing content of the lyric, while enhancing the cynical humor Colin intends - don't you think? Was this Gus's idea? I don't know. Could have been. The big drum sound on "The Disappointed" I could do without. This track is my least favorite on the CD EP. I need to hear more. I want to hear more! WHERE'S THAT CD!!!??? :-) * * * * * By the way, I still have the three, 3-inch set of Oranges and Lemons for sale. Write me for details. * * * * * Also, Emmanuel Marin writes: >Dear English Chalkhills, on the 7th May, tune to France Inter, (165 LW), >at 9 p.m., to catch... >XTC's French Radio Acoustic Concert Exclusive !! Encouraging! Mebbe they'll do another radio tour. My "Live at WBCN (Boston)" broadcast tape is a favorite of mine. Lotsa jokes; seems like the band had fun doing it, too. Favorite quote from the tape: DJ: "What made you decide to do [the acoustic tour]?" Andy: "Well, I heard the menacing click of a revolver on the back of my sweating temple!" (Signed, Waiting in Walla-Walla)
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 09:29 PDT From: HAMILTON@daq.semi.harris.com (Fred Hamilton 408-450-5179) Subject: What do you call that noise that you put on? Hi fellow Chalkhillians, Do I sense the beginnings of a civil war? Maybe we should break up Chalkhills into more specific groups so people can pretend nothing exists except their personal favorite XTC music, like: Chalkhills.Drums_and_Wires-Black_Sea, or Chalkhills.White_Music.Side_1.Track_3.1:13-1:47 Re: the Karl Elvis MacRae vs Gus Dudgeon atrocity: Karl, if I remember your original post correctly, you haven't even heard the album yet! You seem to be engaging in a form of close- mindedness I wouldn't expect from ANY rational human being, let alone an XTC fan. I always thought XTC fans were, by definition, pretty amazingly open-minded. Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com> writes: >I was dismayed prior to O&L to learn that Paul Fox had produced a slew >of terrible pop bands and the drummer for the album came from Mister >Mister. Fortunately, O&L turned out to be a fine record with many >outstanding tracks. It isn't perfect, but a solid album. > >Don't write off Nonsuch before you've even heard a note of it. Hear hear! Although I tend to agree more with David Bregande's comments about O&L: "I think what I liked most was how I could listen to it a thousand times and still discover some new bits of musical genius. What some of you call crowded, I call deep." I've been an big XTC fan for over 10 years now, and O&L is the first LP/CD that I could not bring myself to remove from my player for over 2 weeks... Al.Handa@ebay.sun.com (Al Handa) writes: >The only artist who give me the same feeling as XTC is Tom >Verlaine, but even that is reaching. > >Nonetheless, buy Television's "Marquee Moon," then "Flashlight" >by Tom Verlaine. Alright! Another Tom Verlaine fan! What does Tom Verlaine have in common with XTC (aside from awesome talent)? Zero respect from any American record labels. Good recommendations, Al. After those two I'd get Television's "Adventure" and Tom's first solo album, "Tom Verlaine". BTW, Television's been recording a new album!!!! (I suppose I'll have to see who's producing it before I decide whether or not to give it a listen, though. ;-) Oh yeah, this is an XTC group...I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming... -Fred
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Date: 16 Apr 92 11:01:10 EDT
From: <OTG@csi.compuserve.com>
Subject: Burning with Criticism's Flames? Relax, folks.
Karl: "But to say [Oranges And Lemons] is good product is to lie to yourself."
Whew. The tone around here has certainly changed lately.
Whether you like something or not is an OPINION. Personally, I like _O&L_ far
more that _The_Big_Express_, which I thought lacked the songs that _O&L_ had.
I know that _TBE_ is a big favorite around here, I just don't share that view.
Doesn't mean I'm right or wrong - just means I don't agree. Karl obviously
does not like _O&L_, which is fine - that's his opinion. But Karl, that
doesn't make the album patently bad, it makes it bad in your view. If someone
doesn't like what I like, that doesn't make either of us wrong, now does it?
I became a fan back in '82, and XTC's changed a lot since then. I've liked
each album since in varying degrees, some more than others.
Why don't we all take a breath, relax, and get back to a few calm discussions.
I'm looking forward to "Nonsuch", and I'm going to pick it up the day it comes
out (provided it ever does <sigh>), and I'll form my opinions then.
-- Owen
PS: Content not related to current flame war:
I don't think the "Difappointed" was a typo. The style of the drawing on the
CD cover looks very "1700's". I'm sure the "f" is being used similarly to its
use in old American (and British? dunno) documents. Just my $0.02 worth.
----------
Owen Gwilliam - otg@csi.compuserve.com .. or .. CompuServe: >CSI:OTG
"Oh ... I thought the 'G' was a middle initial."
- Heard far more times than I can even begin to remember ...
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: "ELVIS" Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 11:06:57 -0700 From: Jemiah Levon Jefferson <jjeffers@reed.edu> I'm not used to being upbraided on a public newsnet -- this is after all my first year at this sort of thing. But I'd like to kindly reply, UP YOURS, me fine lad. I love Oranges and Lemons, and damn you, the songs are great, okay? What the hell kind of standards are you going on, anyway? What do you consider a good song? Edge is good for edge. If I want grunge I'll listen to Mudhoney or the Vandals. If I want good, heavy, solid, intelligent pop music, I listen to XTC. Producers are people too. A good and creative producer is as much a joy to behold as a good band. Take Kingfisher for example... or Brian Eno. I'm sorry, John dude, but I just can't keep my cool about this. "ELVIS" here just insulted something very close to me and I'm not about to put up with it for one second. I'm sure you think I'm a schmuck for liking Duran Duran, too, don't you? I oughta... A grateful thanks to John Pinto at Dartmouth and Dave Bregande, from wherever, for buoying me up and making me sound a little less weedy. I'm glad someone else out there actually doesn't just write off XTC because they've mellowed off and polished up some since "Set Myself On Fire." Love to all, EEYORE (jjeffers@reed.edu)
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 14:22 EDT From: DDCRIDDLE@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu Subject: on a lighter note... well, amidst all of this "fun banter" about the merits or lack thereof of the new album, I feel compelled to point out that drummer Dean Clean is sporting a Drums and Wires t-shirt on the sleeve of the new Dead Milkmen album, Soul Rotation, which for me at this point is still just okay, for anyone who's interested. I recall back in my junior high days of adoring the Police that Stewart Copeland often was pictured in the same shirt. I think it is testimony to the tremendous rhythmic influence of Terry Chambers. Geez, I miss the guy. By the way, I'm sure you'll get this from a zillion other sources, but it's not a misprint on the cd single- that's not an "f", it's an old English "s". So no worries. jude
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Subject: the flame war continues From: Desi The Three-Armed Wonder Comic <jondr@sco.com> Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 11:24:31 PDT Karlelvis.Macrae@ebay.sun.com expostulates: > I like Skylarking. It's brilliantly recorded, and has > a few *really* great songs on it. > > O&L, however, is simply not a well made album on any level. gee, i think the majority of listeners consider skylarking to be very BADLY recorded. no matter how much you dislike O&L, you have to admit it's very well engineered. > My feeling about production is that the more you hear the > producer, the worse the product is, *IF* you have good > material and talent to biging with. what a silly position. i buy records based solely on who produced them. when the circumstances are right, a producer can add his or her "signature" to a record and lift a good record to the realm of great. tell me you can't hear todd rundgren's influence on skylarking. > Sorry. When you start to show off on purpose, it's ego > masturbation. And it's not good composition. it's only bad composition if you can't balance between showing off and solid structure underneath. i agree that there are places on O&L where it is too conciously showy for its own good, but there are plenty of places where the glitz is built on top of solid foundations. William H Stoner III <bilbo@cis.ohio-state.edu> sez: >in. the first thing I noticed was that the cover, spine and disc were all >miss printed as "The Difapointed", the back ws correct though, so how many >of you got miss prints? it's supposed to be that way, silly! it's supposed to look Elizabethan. go look at some reproductions of the shakespeare plays - all the "s"s are "f"s... Al.Handa@ebay.sun.com (Al Handa) speculates: >One, it sounds like those people are hearing pre-release >copies, which probably won't have the final mix we'll hear. I doubt it. There is a lot of ramp-up time in producing CDs and records, so the tapes that are circulating are probably exactly what will be released later. Maybe someone out there with a tape and the Disappointed single (john? woj?) would care to comment... Jon Drukman (finely honed machine) uunet!sco!jondr jondr@sco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With hungered flesh obscurely, he mutely craved to adore.
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Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 13:56:19 PDT
From: Chalkhills Administration <chalkhills-request@chalkhills.org>
Subject: Omnibus Takes All of US
Organisation: Chalkhills Anonymous
[ Thanks to the folks at The Little Express for sending this article
to Chalkhills. -- John ]
Chris Twomey talks to _Limelight_ about what fans can expect from his
XTC biography, _Chalkhills and Children_, due out in April 1992 and
published by Omnibus:
They'll be surprised by the thickness of it. I'm really
happy with the format of the book. Omnibus send me down
two books, one was a coffee table book on Madonna and the
other was a very pictorial book on REM. I passed them on
to Andy saying I preferred the format of the REM book,
but he didn't like either. He wanted a thick dusty tome,
something like _Shout!_. I thought, bloody hell, you've
got no chance there mate. How do you say it to
somebody's face, but XTC aren't exactly the Stones or the
Beatles? But to my surprise Omnibus shoved me down a
couple more books and one was a biography of Phil Ochs,
who I've never even heard of, and it's a proper book with
a spine and photographs down the middle and that's what
I've done for XTC.
It's a serious read, although I think it's very funny in
places, as you'd expect from Andy. The important thing
about a book is that you've got to read it, you've got to
discover things that you didn't previously know. I found
they were incredibly honest. Andy particularly, but all
of them really. Colin told me about an affair he had
which I'm sure the fans don't know. Likewise Andy had a
bit of a do with somebody at Virgin. I was worried that
Andy might not let me go into his mental health problems
in any depth, because it's a sensitive issue with his
mother being a bit wobbly, but Andy's reaction was that
it's happened, so it should go in. I think when he read
a lot of it back he thought, oh dear, but he was so
honest and he said just leave it. When I did a book
about The Stranglers, it was the total antithesis of
that, there was nothing in it that you couldn't have got
from diligently reading your _NME_. Ninety per cent of
everything I got for this one was from the band and
people they put me in touch with.
The band did look at it chapter by chapter, mainly for
corrections, but the only thing that got censored -- not
taken out, but toned down -- was the detail of what went
on between Colin and Deborah. It's still mentioned. I
argued for it, not just to be salacious, but because the
one really interesting point was that it all happened at
the time of "Making Plans for Nigel". At last they've
got their first hit and it's Colin's song and Colin's
mind isn't even on the job, he says he can't remember
that time at all.
This may be blowing my own trumpet, but through reading
the chapters back, Andy said that a lot of things that he
hadn't even known about have started to affect him. One
theme that runs through the book is that Dave and Colin
are more often criticising Andy than praising him. He
said he got to learn things that they'd never voiced to
him.
I don't know if it's a good book -- I'm dreading the
reviews. Rock books are reviewed by rock journalists who
always think they can do better themselves. There'll
always be criticisms. Things are missed out, but that's
inevitable. My brief was to write between 60 and 65,000
words. I decided to write the way I wanted to write it
and then review the situation once I'd finished it and if
I was drastically over I would have to go back and take
things out. I did do that and I was still about 10,000
words over, but Omnibus said it was OK. I decided there
were certain areas that I wasn't going to deal with at
all -- I wasn't going to deal with video shoots and I
wasn't going to go into depth on record sleeves. I
thought that would get boring; only the very keen fan
would care.
At the end of it all it's got to be entertaining and
informative. It's written as a story of a band who have
missed so many chances. It could be called _How Not To
Do It_. There are two things you learn from the book.
One is that you don't have to be in the first, second or
even third division of success to make a really good
living as a band -- I'm staggered at the amount of money
that got passed around and then got lost. The other
thing is that the integrity of the band is spot on. They
do it for the right reasons and Andy genuinely doesn't
give a shit about whether they have a hit. I like Andy
because he does things that he really believes in and not
to make money.
Andy's original idea was for me to do an in-depth review
of every album and I thought, well, I don't want to do
that because it would get ponderous and slow the
narrative down, and the other reason is, who gives a shit
about my point of view? Equally, if you can see that
it's written by a sycophant, you quickly think, hang on,
I'm not really learning anything here. I found with The
Stranglers I wasn't given permission to say anything
critical and if I did they would have got really up-tight
about it. With this I gave what I considered to be my
honest opinion and Andy just went, OK then! Most people
when they meet Andy, they see a very witty, very charming
kind of guy. I did actually start to see a kind of
darker side to him, but I always thought he was honest.
I approached him on the aggro he causes and his
obstinacy, but he just accepted it. He never got
up-tight about it.
The story begins with Andy's nervous breakdown and then
goes back to the beginning. It all bubbles along quite
nicely until they stop touring and Terry leaves. Towards
the end I was worried that it would just become a blow by
blow account of the making of each album. But as I
interviewed them about each album, things came up that
were totally unexpected and that saved the end.
[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] For all administrative issues, such as change of address, withdrawal from the list, fan club addresses, discography requests (last update 31 March), back issues, etc., send a message to the following address: <chalkhills-request@chalkhills.org> The Chalkhills archives are available at "http://chalkhills.org/". All views expressed in Chalkhills are those of the individual contributors only. We're the smartest monkeys.
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