Chalkhills Digest Volume 3, Issue 45
Date: Monday, 2 December 1996
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 3, Number 45
Monday, 2 December 1996
Today's Topics:
Drums and Weirdness
'Count me in' and more!!
Chalkhills 3:43
welcome?
STEWART not GILMOUR - off topic AGAIN
blegvad web site?
Andy P. and the Beatles II
Thanks to all!
Partch's Petaluma in Papersnow
Amanda Lear ?
"i am blind to whatever they're saying..."
Metaphors of life
gratuitous non-XTC message
French Indochina
Politics on music lists
Scared? Of MOI?
Far too many men dressed up as soldiers
Camper Van Beethoven is Dead
Musical (and other) debates
Oranges and Lemons
11 Weeks 'til Pitchers and Catchers (#3-43)
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The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors.
If you let the sunshine come through.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message-Id: <v01550100aec11bf8be08@[146.6.72.45]>
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 17:03:13 -0600
From: h.h.name@mail.utexas.edu (Mike Mills)
Subject: Drums and Weirdness
We begin with a flame:
>Another classic example of how
>to spot a Democrat: Reagan was EVIL, and America Sucks.
Great. We already had one guy making absolute, subjective statements,
WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER!!! I agree with whoever said that we need to
keep this list focused on actual arguments. I love the way you ("Jes")
come out of the woodwork whenever something like this comes up. If you
want to spew name-calling bullshit, get on some political action list
and stop bothering us!
>Basically, it didn't
>seem to be the 50 "worst singles/albums," but the 50 "worst singles/albums
>by artists we all like who have made other really good records."
Oh, but see, you're missing the whole point. As they said in the book,
"Any schlub can go and make a bad record." What makes the book amusing
and a good read is that they poke fun at artists that we (and they) really
respect, allowing them to be human and screw up, as well as trashing the
quick cash-ins (Richard Simmons, John Travolta). I suggest you approach it
with a good sense of humor and try again.
>To the person who wondered why most list members liked "mainstream radio"
>like The Sugarplastic and The Cardigans:
Who was that??!? When The Sugarplastic become mainstream radio, I'll
probably implode from happiness.
Re: D&W Confusion
>The only reason I'm writing all this is I always wondered why these two
>songs, clearly popular ones, got this treatment. Does any one know?
Heh heh...Ah, the old "Beatle America" treatment. Wait a minute...did you
say that the original US version had both "Hop" and "Nigel"? And then
also say that "Someone made off with my LP (and the bonus single)"? What
was the bonus single? From what the CD says, "Hop" as well as "Chain of
Command" and "Limelight" were the single in Britain (hence bonus tracks on
the CD). The American version begins with "Hop" and has "Nigel" as the
third track. Perhaps (and this is just my take on it), since "Hop" was
released separately from D&W and began to take off, somebody in the US
thought, "Shit, we better put this on the album to increase its sales
potential!" So they did, and hence D&W in the states had the added
plus of "Hop" in addition to "Nigel" (but no "Day In Day Out"-- wouldn't
want them to have TOO much, now would we?) That's why you've had to buy
everything.
>"friday is heaven"
Isn't that a Cure song? :)
>As for good old political US bashing, I have to applaud the US for making
>one of the strongest anti-US protest songs into one of their biggest ever
>hits - I refer of course to Brooooos Springsteen's "Born in the USA"...
Yes, and of course misguided political campaigns are still trying to use
it as a patriotic anthem (witness Bob Dole)...
>"Fortress around your heart"
Yeah, I love that song-- I like trying to find the hidden chords in that
type of stuff and then just playing them normally, stripped away.
> do you think that [De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da]
>sounds suspiciously like "Making Plans for Nigel"?
Yep, and I believe "Nigel" came out first...
Have a happy Thanksgiving, guys and gals.
Jason
"No one lends money to a man with a sense of humor" -Peter Tork, in "Head"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 19:52:47 -0500 (EST)
From: Ted Harms <tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: 'Count me in' and more!!
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.961126193227.26265A-100000@library.uwaterloo.ca>
I like Go2, too. Since that makes 6, we've got enough for a hockey team.
I'll play net since I've been practicing my Johnny Bower poke-check of
late (though I'm not afraid to pull a Billy Smith every now and again).
My one attempt to introduce XTC to somebody was when a friend in the
university residence wanted something really loud and 'bouncy' and he just
wanted to dance around his room. Loaned him the tape of White Music/Go2
(I keep my hometaping in chronological order, don't cha know) and he was
happy as a clam for 90 some odd minutes. Too bad he never asked for it
again...
To the fine bloke that threatened to mention Crowded House in their next
post, I say bring it on! Alas, yet another great band that never got
the (North American) recognition that it deserved and that I'll never see
live...
To AMANDA: I get kinda weepy during national anthems, too. ('specially
during hockey games...)
Here's my solution to xTc's contract woes: form their own label and just
work out a distribution deal with somebody. That way they can release
what they want, when they want it without hassle. As can be seen from the
popularity of acts on small labels (Epitah, WaxTrax, Murder, and formerly
SubPop). Or better yet, screw the distributor and just take mail order
from a web-site (which is the path taken by Jane Siberry, another under-
exposed performer that hasn't seen the respect she deserves).
I only have one PLAY IT LOUD album that is always played loud and that's
'The Colour of Spring' by Talk Talk. It is only played on the first warm
day of winter (usually in March) with the windows wide open and me laying in
patch of sunshine. Then it gets put away and waits 'till next spring...
Ted Harms Library, Univ. of Waterloo
tmharms@library.uwaterloo.ca 519.888.4567 x3761
"Cat's yawn because they realize that there's nothing to do." - Jack Kerouac
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 16:52:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199611270052.QAA16835@uclink4.berkeley.edu> From: michaelk@uclink4.berkeley.edu (Michael K Ong) Subject: Chalkhills 3:43 Amanda wrote: >Anyone who has Are You Receiving Me on video...is it just me or does Barry >look like he doesn't want to be there at all? It's been a while since I've seen this video (still waiting for my leaf to blow in!) but I remember noticing the same thing too. Since I saw this pre-Twomey's book, I wonder when the video was shot in relation to Barry's leaving the band. mIKE
------------------------------
From: Saints3Den@aol.com
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:06:21 -0500
Message-ID: <961126210620_1519764023@emout10.mail.aol.com>
Subject: welcome?
hello y'all...
poor Amanda gets attacked , but her posts were sort of asking for it ,from at
least someone out of the 1000+ subscribers. Which is proof that --- 'people
will always be tempted to wipe their feet , on anything with "welcome"
written on it.' --- ,as we have been told . ( That line is from my play it
loud song... SNOWMAN)
Here are listed three "Evil Canadians"
1) Savoir Faire
2)Snidely Whiplash
3) The Guy Who Decided To Release A Sped Up "LOVE AT 1st SIGHT"
It isn't that great an idea to look for an xtc fan as a possible spouse. In
case of divorce , you could lose your entire collection of material!
When I read these posts regarding "bad songs"... especially due to a "bad
note "or a "weak rhyme" or a "genre/pastiche" ...I like to use this idea from
the Talking Heads song "Cities" and instead of cities , I tie it to xtc
songs,thusly
Xtc songs have -"good points... bad points" - but- "it all works
out" -- even though - "some times I'm a little freaked out" In other words ,
the songs , as a whole , I enjoy ,despite any weaknesses in them . Parts may
bother me, but i'm not looking for something to make me dislike a song . I
like them warts and all.
I have seen no comment on , I beleive it was Natalie Jane Jacobs , who can't
like Thanks For Christmas because she is Jewish and doesn't beleive in
christmas.
Does this mean I can't like Brainiacs Daughter anymore , since I don't
beleive she ever existed? (Just one example)
Several reasons to be english infatuated...
1)cute/odd last names... Partridge... Moneypenny...
2)cute/odd sayings... such as -" 'ello, whats this"... "do come along, Bond"
3)sailing ship books ( such as "horatio hornblower"-one of which features
a ship named the HMS NONSUCH, I recall.
4) Dick Francis books- put me right in England!
( I would appreciate if an English chalker could E-mail me privately on the
subject of one Black Panther criminal 1960's?-70's?-murderer/kidnapper-I
fell asleep during the documentary-wish to know how things turn
out!-thanks-sorry for the off topic!)
Are there any record labels which XTC have RULED OUT as choices... it
would be nice to know as at least being some news and one step closer to a
final choice... anyone? so long ... ED ST. MARTIN
------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:06:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199611270206.SAA07043@barley.adnc.com> From: studio seventeen productions <ambient@adnc.com> Subject: STEWART not GILMOUR - off topic AGAIN I am not a big Paul McCartney collector, but since I love 10cc, I was thrilled, when, one year, 10cc lead guitarist Eric Stewart joined Macca's band, and they produced what is probably one of PM's finest post Beatles songs "No More Lonely Nights"...featuring beautiful lead solos and vocals by (unnoticed pop genius) Eric Stewart of 10cc. I also have a video of the song where I can SEE Eric Stewart miming along with the band...BUT, I DO NOT HAVE THE ALBUM (or any post Beatles PM except RAM and UNPLUGGED) so I COULD BE WRONG. Not Dave Gilmour as far as I know... But what a compliment to Eric Stewart, and perhaps you'd care to check out his equally moving guitar work on such songs as "Feel The Benefit" (perferably a live version) or countless others from the 10cc catalog... :-) [Please correct me if I am wrong.] Humble Dave at studio seventeen 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168 * * * * * * he's seated now, and almost ready to * * begin: "lead me in with a count of 17...." * * (Consequences/Godley & Creme) * * visit: http:www.adnc.com/web/ambient/index.html seventeen: the ambient music page 173451681734516817345168173451681734516817345168
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 18:59:06 -0500
Message-ID: <29BA3E22.@metagroup.com>
From: RobertD@metagroup.com (RobertD)
Subject: blegvad web site?
I've been a Blegvad fan ever since I saw him play live in Northampton,
Mass. at the Iron Horse Cafe, oh, 7-8 years ago. Solo acoustic, the
only way to see him perform. Downtime had just come out. No US deal at
the time. I couldn't stop listening to the LP after I bought it at the
show and PB initialized it! Holiday Clocks - led by one Gideon
Freudmann (a huge XTC fan in his own right) - offered their own
Blegvad/XTC style material. If anyone is interested in hearing HC's
long out of print LP, e-mail me personally. Gideon is still doing
stuff and performing live. He's always come up with some great lyrics.
Ended up buying King Strut when I was in London in '92 - the same time
I added a few XTC 7-inches to my collection - and thoroughly enjoyed
it! Wholeheartedly agree, check out King Strut and Other Stories first
if you've never heard Blegvad before.
Saw Peter at the Knitting Factory a couple years ago (the old Knit
where you had to sit on the floor) and it was even better than the
first time. Acoustic, with basic accompaniment, Blegvad is so soothing
to hear live. Is there's anything out there of Blegvad live on CD?
and ... stay away from The Lodge which features Blegvad, his brother
Kristoff and friends ... it's a real chore to get through the lyrics
as well as the music. On the other hand, the Blegvad tracks on Slapp
Happy are always a fun listen as well as the other odd tracks he's
done over the years i.e. Syd Straw and the Golden Palominos.
So please tell me: what's the PB web site address?
...add my name to the list who passed on Fossil Fuel ... with
everything already on CD in my collection, what's the purpose of
spending $25 for a pretty package? come on, I already gave Virgin
loads of money over the years by buying import 12-inches the week they
came out and the first issues of the albums on vinyl ... I'll wait for
the proper retrospective on their future label ... how 'bout a real
retrospective ... a three CD set: Andy's favorites on one, Colin's
favorites on another and another batch of odds and ends on the third.
Yellow Magic Orchestra did it, Split Enz did it, XTC deserves it!
As far as XTC video, I'm interested in trading audio for any video
stuff --- I already have Look Look and a one-hour performance from '82
on German TV, from the ES Tour. Anyone willing to dub the more recent
video stuff since Look Look?
Bob D'Aprile
robertd@metagroup.com
33 Holcomb Ave
Stamford, CT 06906
1-800-756-6382 ext 6798 (W)
203-967-7225 (h)
------------------------------ Date: 26 Nov 96 21:40:33 EST From: DaveKGold <70673.317@CompuServe.COM> Subject: Andy P. and the Beatles II Message-ID: <961127024033_70673.317_FHP66-1@CompuServe.COM> Hi All- I'm very behind on my Chalkhills! Well, anyways, there has been much talk about the Beatles lately...and Elvis (not the fat bloated dead one <g>)....which brings me to this thought. On his video about the making of "Flowers in the Dirt", Paul said that working with EC was most like working with John.... I thought that a reunitied Beatles with EC would make some interesting stuff.... You could do the same with AP filling in....or even an album like the Heads, with each track highlighting a different artist. Interesting? Well, who cares what we think about this anyways! BTW, I actually liked ELO pre-Discovery.... I'm not going to apologize for that. I have very eclectic music tastes...including early Chicago (before Terry Kath died), Tchikovsky, Tower of Power, PAtsy Cline, Alanis, NIN, X, Dickies, Souise and the Banshees, the B-52s, the Band, and many, many, more all have a place in my collection (not the Hootie or the Madonna - that's my soon-to-be -ex wife's. I think Hootie is to music as Barney is to kid shows. The antichrist) But XTC is certainly the best currently on the shelves! Where the hell is that new album? Hey, that gives me an idea for a thread! ===> Chalkhillers, which groups do you own the most CD's/vinyl cassettes of? E-mail (70673.317@compuserve.com) me and I'll make the list. Give me your top 5. Don't count demos or bootlegs...only released stuff. On a totally unrelated subject, a while ago there was a talk about meeting women and XTC. Well, recently I started dating a gal who had once owned a copy of Drums and Wires....and after I played her some newer stuff, she went out and bought Mummer....then I gave her a copy of Nonsuch...and we have listened to Chips together (she loved it)....so maybe my taste in women and luck has improved. Yours, Dave G. P.S. - Still looking for So Cal XTC fans for a gathering to suck some piss, etc.! Only two have responded to date! P.P.S. - Where can I get a copy of all the lyrics to "Heaven is Paved with Broken Glass"?
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199611270331.VAA13287@mailhost.cyberramp.net> From: "Ed Miller" <edmiller@cyberramp.net> Subject: Thanks to all! Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 21:25:39 -0600 I've been lurking for about 3 months now, and I think it's time I let this out. Chalkhills and all of you are quite a tremendous bunch. Mark Strijbos at the Little Lighthouse and I have been corresponding, and I feel like I'm getting to know many others as well. Feel free to drop a line if any of you wish. I am really starting to "reappreciate" XTC thanks to you all. I had O&L when I started subscribing and have since purchased Drums and Wires, English Settlement and Skylarking. I also picked up The Sugarplastic and like it some. I was also reminded of a song I have on locally produced CD by Toy Matinee, and have gotten back into that. And, being a semi-professional (read "good hacker") musician, the spins in this direction are fascinating! Keep it up! That's all. Later............ Ed Miller, Dallas, TX
------------------------------ Message-ID: <329BEBE7.4440@geocities.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 23:21:11 -0800 From: Troy Peters <troypeters@geocities.com> Subject: Partch's Petaluma in Papersnow This one must have gotten lost in the big system changeover in the Land of Relph, so I hereby resubmit for y'all's perusal... In Chalkhills #3-34, Natalie Jane Jacobs <gnat@umich.edu> wrote: > Looking at the lyrics to Papersnow, I caught a couple of obscure (or maybe > not-so-obscure) cultural references - "Laundry ticket that exploded" > refers to "The Ticket That Exploded" by ancient withered raspy-voiced > badass William S. Burroughs. "Petals fell on Petaluma" refers to an > opera or orchestral suite (I can't remember which) by Harry Partch, a mad > genius avant-garde composer who built his own instruments out of junk, the > results sounding rather similar to latter-day Tom Waits without the > vocals. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, kids.) Good catch, Natalie. Harry Partch's "And on the Seventh Day, Petals Fell in Petaluma" is a large scale chamber work he composed in 1964. Partch built his own instruments at least partially in an attempt to develop a functional microtonal language (basically getting notes in between the keys on a piano - although this is an oversimplification). You can get "Petaluma" on CD (CRI CD 7000); check it out. I wonder how Mr. Partridge came to know Partch's work? Partch has had a huge influence on many different musicians (including Tom Waits). My own guess is that AP might have been turned on to Partch by Harold Budd. Just a guess. And the Residents are reputed to be big Partch fans, so there might be an earlier connection there. Or maybe AP is just remarkably astute, as usual. BTW, if you're curious about Partch and you love EC, you can hear Elvis himself playing a Partch instrument (the harmonic canon) as he sings on the intriguing album "Weird Nightmare: Meditations on Mingus" (Columbia CK 52739). This one is *definitely* worth checking out. Troy Peters http://www.netcom.com/~tpeters6/ LISTENING TO: TMBG, Factory Showroom. Q: Does anybody else think "Pet Name" sounds quite a bit like our good friend Ben Folds? I love it!
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199611270650.HAA16648@utrecht.knoware.nl> From: "Mark Strijbos" <mmello@knoware.nl> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:30:00 +0000 Subject: Amanda Lear ? Dear Chalksters, First this: does anyone out there have a spare copy of the US Making Plans For Nigel 7 inch single? (Virgin USA/Atlantic # VA 67009 ) Email me privately - loads of trade items available. And last issue Simon Knight asked about Edward Lear: > I was listening to "Then she appeared" this morning and once again was > wondering who Edward Lear is. Andy mentioned him in an interview Check out the new Your Dictionary section of Bungalow, Simon Sleightholm's excellent XTC Website for a full answer. BTW: the name Lear was also dropped in Paperback Writer by the Beatles. "it's based on a novel by a man named Lear" ) Coincedence? ( cue Twilight Zone theme ) And AMANDA seems to have started a forest fire... As a foreigner who doesn't receive any dollars from the US i would like to suggest to you Americans to fight out your political battles in a different arena. Please? To be frank Chalkies, I don't really care to hear about your political beliefs or what you think about the evilness of Reagan/Bush/Clinton...i care about XTC. I care about Their songs, Their records, Their videos and sometimes I even care about how you feel about Them. But please don't waste my time & harddisk space with these pointless discussions that lead absolutely nowhere. yours in agony, Mark Strijbos at The Little Lighthouse http://utopia.knoware.nl/~mmello/index.html ===> Mark's useless XTC quote for today <== We all need a big reduction in the amount of tears
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 01:01:46 -0800
From: becki digregorio <ziglain@cruzio.com>
Subject: "i am blind to whatever they're saying..."
Message-ID: <9611262033.aa15938@bbs.cruzio.com>
dear xtc tribe,
is it my imagination, or are we getting a _lot_ of postings these past few
weeks?? is it because more people are getting into the band?? could
"fossil fuels" be partly responsible?? seems like i'm getting one nearly
everyday now.
anyway, tho i usually read more than i post, did have a few things to mention:
a special thank you to james isaacs for posting the time article. tho i
must admit that this was _not_ in my november 11th issue, nor any around
this period. could my particular copy be amiss, or is this from another
issue?? damn, and i really wanted to have the actual article, check out a
recent pic of the lads.
to the cat who wanted the lyrics to "the forgotten language of light." i,
too, am flipped out by this tune. however (and no flame intended) i do
believe that the whole purpose of andy's "lack of lyrics thereof" is
precisely due to his idea of the song -- "forgotten language of light"
would go way beyond any sort of language or lyrics/words that we could use
to describe such a thing. sorta' "pre-everything" in a way, before words
came around to screw things up.
(...egads, i fear the above makes no sense whatsoever.)
--- reminds me of that beautiful line by peter gabriel in an old genesis
tune: "only a magic that a name would stain..."
kris markman (name right?) had wise words about this list in her *warm
fuzzies alert* section. true, this is a fine list, even when the subject
matter gets somewhat a little off from the music from our lads. and like
kris, i too subscribed to another band list for awhile (the jefferson
airplane one). this lasted approximately one week. jeesh, and i thought
xtc fans got nitpicky about things!! people were going back and forth
about "which kind of drum head spencer was using in cushingura, and exactly
_what_ was that percussion-or-not instrument he used to get that trippy
sound," etc. i reckon you can tell when we xtc fans are starving for
musical-content stuff to talk about (after such a long break between albums
this isn't all that difficult). you know things are bad when we start
discussing things like what kind of shirt colin was wearing in a particular
photo...
and john yuelkenbeck, you cracked me up w/ your comments about the
form-and- structure-folks and "does anybody else think the music theorists
don't have a clue as to what they are talking about, but are just being
pedantic to impress us?" thanks, john; and i had to look up "pedantic"
(!). but this is nothing new. xtc is the only band where i've actually
had to grab a dictionary for a definition ("truncheon" and "somnambulist"
come to mind). humbling...
dale leopold -- i've often been on the same "trip." dug your insights and
comments regarding the dukes. i _love_ psychedelic stuff, and could relate
to everything you said. and does anyone else think that the byrds' "wasn't
born to follow" is the greatest thing since sliced milk?? (um... what?!).
too bad about the dukes, would have loved some "new" material from them...
<sniff>
yikes!!! a novella. and i'm supposed to be working...
peace to all,
becki
"he wasn't drunk on liquor, just drunk on what he liked..." --jack kerouac
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:57:35 -0500 (EST)
From: Allan Hislop <Allan_Hislop_at_UKCDEE01@ccmail.bms.com>
Subject: Metaphors of life
Message-id: <9610278491.AA849100215@ccgate0.bms.com>
Dear fellow Cheesehillians,
I was sitting here at work pondering over some of my favourite XTC
tracks, when I noticed a startling thread appearing:
Mayor of Simpleton, Dear Madam Barnum, Sgt. Rock, Snowman, The
Disappointed, Crocodile, Shake You Donkey Up.
Metaphors of love or what?
Add tracks such as "You're really Super, Supergirl", "Helicopter",
etc. and it seems that a simple Boy-Girl relationship type song is not
enough for our favourite band.
And what does it say about my own psyche that I like these types of
songs? After all I'm a happily married man with a 6 month old
daughter.
Then I realise I also like "Earn enough for us", "Love on a Farmboys
wages" & "Paper and Iron", and perhaps it all starts to make sense.
I found that I'm not as keen on "Towers of London", "Redbrick Dream",
"Bungalow" and "Roads girdle the globe". So no structural fixation
for me (or thoughts of travelling and retirement yet) although I do
like "Statue of Liberty". ?
Common threads seem to surround all XTC songs eg War - "Generals..",
"Living thro'..", "This World Over", etc.
A number of songs for a number of emotions and a great way to make a
compilation tape.
Even just using XTC song titles:
Animal themes: Crocodile (again), Ladybird, Shake You Donkey Up
(again), Fly on the wall, Seagulls Screaming.
And so it goes on.
Instead of a song of the week, perhaps we could pick a theme, and try
and find a song or 2 that fits?
Perhaps it's a stupid idea, I'm working too hard (or not enough, if
I'm doing this), just ignore me, I'm blathering.
I'm going for a lie down, my brain hurts.
This is Pop?
Allan
Current non XTC listenings (& they sound nothing like XTC):
The Men They Couldn't Hang - Waiting for Bonaparte
Thrashing Doves - Bedrock Vice.
Old bands, but hey, timeless tunes.
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199611271228.EAA03594@gryphon.com> From: "William Wisner" <wisner@gryphon.com> Subject: gratuitous non-XTC message Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 04:12:53 -0800 Tomorrow I start a 2.5 week excursion to the British Isles. If any Chalkholios from anywhere in the UK would be interested in hefting a brew or three with a visiting American, drop me a line at <wisner@gryphon.com> with details on how to contact you as I will be occasionally checking my mail on the road. Bye-bye!
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199611271325.FAA06511@sgi.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:18:47 EST From: "Todd Bernhardt" <tbernha@columbiaenergy.e-mail.com> Subject: French Indochina Hmmm. Well, I suppose I must respond... From: "John E. Daley" <John_E.._Daley.ZIFF-DAVIS@mail2.zd.com>: > Oh, Todd Bernhardt, it was John F. Kennedy who committed the United States to sending combat troops in Vietnam, not Eisenhower. Ike sent advisors to train ARVN troops and the CIA was involved, but JFK had 3,200 troops in country by Dec 1961. (no doubt in order not to appear 'soft' on communism)< Well, the question I was answering was, "Who got us into Vietnam?" I certainly didn't mean to downplay Kennedy or Johnson's roles in that misguided war. I believe my original point was, let's keep politics out of this list! I really enjoyed the rest of your post, though. Very funny stuff. You *were* joking, right? Jason Phelan said: > Let's knuckle down and try to leave the hate to the ignorants< Right on, right on... and also said > If you don't like that band, I don't want to know why you don't like it. A simple "eh, it's not for me." would suffice. Or better yet, NO reponse at all. Pettiness is saying "that band sucks and this is why!" That's no way to be human.< Well, I've got to disagree with you there, Jason, at least partially. For me, pettiness is saying "This band sucks!" and *not* saying why. One of the things I used to like about my literature classes was that you could take any point of view, as long as you could back it up. I think a lot of the vitriol that's shown up on the list lately could have been avoided if people allowed some reasoning to balance out their emotions. It's easy to feel a particular way about something; it's harder to supply concrete reasons for your feelings. When you take the time to do that, you'll often find that your feeling about a subject have changed, or at least been tempered somewhat. Or, as Jason NeSmith sez: >Just read it over once before hitting *send*.< ByeBye!
------------------------------ Message-Id: <v01540b00aec1e164583b@[198.40.25.103]> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 07:35:52 -0500 From: dmcguire@artic.edu (Dennis R. McGuire) Subject: Politics on music lists Out of lurk mode here. Jason NeSmith wrote: >I have a good friend on both the EC and John Hiatt lists, and both of those >lists have been ravaged by political arguments. While it is true the EC list recently had a bit of political nastiness, it was nowhere near the level of nastiness found here. The discussion on the EC list revolved around whether it was possible to divorce yourself from the politics of a performer you admire, in other words, how do conservatives claim to enjoy Elvis singing 'Tramp the Dirt Down' or rewfering to Ronald Reagan as a spaceman in the White House. Everyone here is too busy slamming each other's *personal* political views. Of course if you post them, you open yourself to it. I have noticed a good number of self-identified conservatives (or at least RR and GB voters) on the list. How do you listen to XTC's politics and justify against your own? Do you just shrug off their views and enjoy the music? It's not something I can do. I suppose it is apparent that I disagree with Amanda's politics, but she did publicly post them, perhaps without thinking her thought completely through. As Jason Nesmith also said, >It's okay to say what you feel, but we all need to be CAREFUL that what >we're >saying won't result in unwanted backlash. This list is world-wide, >and while >some of us are licking our wounds others are bored shitless. >It's not >censoring yourself to change the tone of what you're saying. >Just read it over >once before hitting *send*. This applies to John Hackney just as much as anyone else. Lastly, this confuses the hell out of me: Amanda Owens wrote: >"Now, I've said that I'm not at all very patriotic, and later wrote that she cries her eyes out everytime she hears the national anthem. If not for patriotic reasons, why? Dennis ************************************************** Dennis R. McGuire Ryerson and Burnham Libraries Art Institute of Chicago dmcguire@artic.edu **************************************************
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:17:33 -0600 (CST) From: AMANDA OWENS <ACOEA@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> Subject: Scared? Of MOI? Message-id: <01ICC0R4X7548ZEYTV@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> That's a stretch. At the imposing 5'4 presence of myself, people get so scared of..... Okay, let me rephrase what I said....I cried during the Olympics when our teams won gold medals and they played the NA. And that's the only time I cried b/c I was proud. Okay? Is that good enough for you? OKAY?!?!?!? Good. Wow, mucho gracias to all the readers. I'm thrilled, but point of clarification on one point...... DeWitt: I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian. To a certain degree, I think everything is interconnected, and Native American philosophies and spirituality intrigue me, but it's not the way of life I was raised in so I can't follow it. (If I followed everything I am, I would have tyo call myself French/Italian/Spanish/ Acadian/Filipino/Portuguese/and about fifty or so other cultures...guess you could call me Heinz 57...but I digress. Enough of that for now. Later, Amanda XTC Song of the Day: Funk Pop a Roll non-XTC Song of the Day: How the Gods Kill-Danzig (odd combination....XTC and Danzig....)
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 14:43:50 GMT Message-Id: <v01510102aec1fe6be88d@[194.128.83.69]> From: fisher@easynet.co.uk (Mark Fisher) Subject: Far too many men dressed up as soldiers I can see we've got caught up in one of those circular discussions in which people get angry about other people getting angry, and then a third lot of people leap to the defense of the first lot of people's right to get angry (though they don't necessarily agree with their opinions, blah, blah), and then yet more people get angry about that. May I suggest that we put aside some of the anger, and continue with the thread that AMANDA began, which was - if anyone can still remember - to do with *Reign of Blows* and the politics of XTC songs. I think we should continue to talk about politics, but let us try and keep it at least vaguely connected to the music. That way, people might not be so open to personal attack, and it'll remind us about why we're talking about it in the first place. (It might also create a diversion from the people who seem to think Chalkhills is a good place to run a part-time Beatles list). If you agree with this idea, continue the thread. If you disagree with it, please show restraint and just ignore it - I couldn't bear another discusssion about the idea of a discussion. - Mark http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~fisher/
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 09:24:20 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199611271524.JAA30423@worf.netins.net> From: Jared Furman <jms@netins.net> Subject: Camper Van Beethoven is Dead Scott Haefner once said--- "Man, talking about having no new albums to discuss! how long have they(Camper Van Beetoven) been defunct? Just checked the copyright on their last album, _Key Lime Pie_ It's been 7 years now." Just because they havent been together for a long time doesnt mean theres nothing to talk about. I myself am i big fan of the group and was on the CVB group but had to get off because of the HIGH volume of mail. Scott also said-- "Too bad Bungalow is thrown in between these two tracks." I and many others happen to love that song. It was beautifully written and very well put together. You picked a sore subject when you thought to pick on Bungalow!!! Next thing ya know you'll end up saying you like to listen to R.E.M.!! -Jared
------------------------------ Message-ID: <CAA8D72F01291300@ametsoc.org> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 96 10:48:00 -0500 From: dgershmn <dgershmn@ametsoc.org> Organization: AMS Subject: Musical (and other) debates Jason (PPumpkinH@aol.com) said: >If I tell the members of this mailer about a band that brings me joy, >I do it for you, to bring you joy that I have found because I figure, >anyone who likes XTC enough to contibute to this mailer is a friend >and has some taste. If you don't like that band, I don't want to know >why you don't like it. A simple "eh, it's not for me." would suffice. >Or better yet, NO reponse at all. Pettiness is saying "that band sucks >and this is why!" That's no way to be human. I must disagree with you here. For someone to say that they dislike a band and explain *why* is much more edifying to me than to simply have them say that "it's not for me." No need to criticize the band in such a way that people who like that band become included in the criticism, of course, but if I'm not familiar with a band or performer, I'd like to know the reasons someone isn't crazy about them. It helps me decide whether I might be interested in hearing more of their music. There's nothing inhuman or petty about that. If people can say on this list that they like certain bands, it seems only right that they should be able to say they *don't* like certain bands as well. And to add one more word (okay, maybe a few more than that) about the political and personal attacks: If everyone on the list would just take statements of personal philosophy with a grain of salt, no one would feel a need to go into attack mode in the first place. Face it: you're not likely to change the other person's beliefs via a rebuff on Chalkhills. I don't necessarily think that stating one's own political viewpoints is entirely out of place in this context, but it just seems that when such a viewpoint is put forward, the reader would do well just to say to themselves "Yeah, that's cool" or "Yeah, whatever" depending on their own closely held views and move on to the next post. Let it drop. Criticizing music is one thing, but criticizing political philosophies strikes much deeper and will tend to be taken more personally. Just try to keep it all in perspective. Best wishes to all for a Happy Thanksgiving, Dave Gershman
------------------------------ Message-Id: <2.2.16.19961127153746.289fa532@cic-mail.lanl.gov> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 08:37:46 -0700 From: DeWitt Henderson <dewitth@lanl.gov> Subject: Oranges and Lemons Sean Robison - hey man, O&L is your fave? Yeah! Turn it up!!! "Turning JHB-ish"? That reminds me of the song "Turning Japanese". So? So, um, who cares... "extremists" and "whiny liberals". Naaaaah, I won't even get into it. Maybe I'll just say that the American Revolution was started by "extremists", hmmmm? Society doesn't change because the majority decides one day that it's going to, believe me. I don't remember the exact quote, but Margaret Mead said something like: "never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world; indeed, it is the only way". Jason Phelan & James Isaacs - intelligent, reasonable comments!! On the other hand, John Daley: if your post was serious (it was hard to tell with all your rants), I feel sorry for you. * ---------------------------------- | DeWitt Henderson | | Los Alamos National Laboratory | | CIC-13 MS P223 | | Los Alamos, NM 87544 | | 505/665-0720 | * ----------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1996 10:43:30 -0500
Message-Id: <v01510101aec1c9337b71@[128.122.161.36]>
From: vanvalnc@is2.nyu.edu (Chris Van Valen)
Subject: 11 Weeks 'til Pitchers and Catchers (#3-43)
Floopyglop@aol.com wrote:
>XTC sighting: Well, during one of the the Baltimore-Cleveland baseball
>playoff series games last month, Nigel Wilson of the Indians came up to bat
>and what should come over the public-address system? "Making Plans For
>Nigel"! I doubt this happens at other ballparks, though, since Nigel isn't a
>common name here in the States.
Same could apply for the Yankees' sometimes erratic lanky Aussie relief
pitcher Graeme Lloyd. As he walks in from the bullpen they could play over
the P.A.:
"We've made that clear. We made little Graeme[sic] promise us he'd be a
good boy..."
CV
Now on the CD player:"Sometimes God Hides: A Young Person's Guide to
Discipline"
If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people
this is no obstacle to work.
--J.G. Bennett
Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Monday at 8PM and
midnight, EST.
--Lucien LaCroix
------------------------------ End of Chalkhills Digest #3-45 ******************************
Go back to Volume 3.
2 December 1996 / Feedback