Chalkhills Digest Volume 5, Issue 136
Date: Monday, 15 March 1999
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 136
Monday, 15 March 1999
Today's Topics:
blessed be
Re: Nelson, Hamilton, Victoria and Alice
Re: The trashing of Dave Gregory
Re: Question for Duncan
dom, again...
Seattle Listening Party
XTC Makes Sunday Globe Comics Section
Look Out London!
XTC in Tokyo (Take 2)
Converts Abound...
Quick reply on comment by Ballentyne, plus comments on Song Stories and Nons
Re: Cadbury's Chocolate Nipple Brown
Thems Fighting Words
Amanda Loves Dave
Andy and Joe
your dictionary
The Green Man and pagan iconography in English Churches
Crisis Schmisis
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Chalkhills is compiled with Digest 3.7 (John Relph <relph@tmbg.org>).
It's down in my pocket with the daylight folded there.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 15:11:13 +1300 (NZDT) Message-Id: <v01540b09b30e152ccdc4@[192.168.0.188]> From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: blessed be >And, please, tell me Andy's *not* a warlock; I wouldn't be able to think >of him the same way. My apologies to all you witches and warlocks. I wouldn't think so. He may, of course, be a witch... Witches (male as well as female) tend to shun the derogatory term "warlock", which means someone who deliberately breaks oaths by lying or cheating. Ah well, at least you didn't say wizard... James
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199903141822.MAA15791@access.mbnet.mb.ca> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:22:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Nelson, Hamilton, Victoria and Alice From: "McCausland_Ian" <talk@ian.mb.ca> > Albert was the husband and consort of Queen Victoria; and Emma Hamilton was > paramour of the great naval hero, Admiral Lord Nelson. There is a great little film called Mrs Brown.. about Queen Victoria after Albert's death...she was so much in love with him when he died that her mourning was becoming a concern to the Empire, she was in such a melancholy state...So their relationship was reknown for its undying love... The film centers around the supposed affair with a horse handler of hers that broke her mourning... Isn't Lord Nelson, the fellow with the large moustache seen on the World war One posters ordering people to enlist...the basic pose to be ripped off in the USA with the Uncle Sam Wants You poster?... I get the sense that both affairs were so well known but never publically acknowledged that they eventually become part of pop culture... > It's little moments that these that make us British fans realize just how > exotic some aspects of XTC must seem to fans in other parts of the world! Indeed and that for me is some of the appeal. These references make their music so unmistakenly British. And haven't you heard Britainia is cool these days :-) Of course I write this in Canada which has so many pyschological and linquistic ties to the Uk that we all seem to have a pre-dispossed preference to music like this....To give you an example of our differences from the US,... The CBC, our national Tv station is under strike by its tech staff, programming is reduced due to the strike.. the normally one hour National newscast at nite is a stripped down 1/2 and the in place of the last half they are showing Absolutly Fabulous! "Only in Canada you say?...Pity....." (A reference to a longing running series of Red Rose Commercials, where all these sterotypical English try the tea, always ending with that remark) My weird XTC AV1 moment, having decided to dust off the Discman and walk while hearing AVI I found myself unconsiously buying a Cadbury's Fut & Nut bar while ,...you guessed it,..listening to Fruit Nut...could this be a conspiracy between Cadbury's and Our Boys?... or perhaps a possible product tie in?....:-) Enjoying Not Lurking in the True North Strong and Free Ian McCausland
------------------------------ Message-ID: <003901be6e51$7686baa0$021217d4@smj> From: "Stephen Jackson" <smj@zen.co.uk> Subject: Re: The trashing of Dave Gregory Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:28:10 -0000 BEAULAC MARIO wrote <this belittling of his former bandmate's "little solos" reeks of the worst possible egomania and lack of basic courtesy, not to mention self-restraint. Now, I know this point, and many others about Partridge's "genius" excesses and tantrums, have been raised in previous digests, inevitably to be followed by almost sycophantic rebuffs as to creative genius' claim to immunity in such matters.> Absolutely. I am tired of reading of AP's slagging of DG....I don't know much about their relationships, but I do know that DG brought more to XTC than a few little solos...AP's talk of "being able to play anything Dave could play" and DG's "lazyness" and the need for AP to bully DG into coming up with creative stuff is really pissing me off. As far as I can see, Dave Gregory, other than providing flourishes of genius, provided 'quality control' and appeared to serve as some kind of mantle to AP's excesses (ironically, of course, AV1 is not an album that suffers particularly from this) In reading these digests, I find it surprising that quite a number of subscribers consider Dave's departure as nothing to get concerned about. I find it equally surprising that AP can slag this man off, and this forum's reaction is one of either agreement or complacency. Andy Partridge is probably a genius, but then so is Dave Gregory. The difference is that AP appears to be conceited, an egomaniac and something of a twat. Andy says "Dave regarded it as a job." Odd then that Andy's assessment of the past 20 years is that his songs "bought Dave a house and a guitar collection"...If Dave Gregory was this job-minded and materialistic, then it took along time for him to realise what a poor career choice he made. Surely Dave's concerns were about the music and little else. I'm sure I will miss him. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Two steps forward, six steps back.
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199903142033.PAA30861@hammurabi.nh.ultra.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Question for Duncan From: "Duncan Watt" <kanuba@nh.ultranet.com> FG wrote/queried: >From: Funk Genie <keathvj9@salem.edu> >My question to you Duncan is how much of a say does an artist have >in whether or not someone covers his/her song. Could Zep, Sting, XTC have >refused to allow the use of their songs? I've wondered about this since >Puff Daddy started his tomfoolery and I am even more curious now that >REM's "Superman", Steve Miller Band's "Fly Like and Eagle", and the Stones >"Can't Always Get what you Want," have all been used in commercials. And >if the artists do have a choice what is their motivation for allowing the >use of their song? How much say? Most artists sign away a good portion of their publishing rights as part of the record deal, at least with big companies. Once a song is published, it's very hard to keep it from being 'covered'(re-recorded/performed), as long as it's properly credited and paid for. There's even a Compulsory License Rate designed to be sure artists aren't taken advantage of by large Publisher-Slime, kind of like the minimum wage (Law-Slime: I'm obviously generalizing here, I know you could poke holes through this quick, simple, legible answer). Check out: http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/title17/1-115.html if you're really into it, esp. (b) and (c). Of course, not everyone follows these rules anyway. Sampling(as opposed to re-recording) has a different set of rules. Suffice to say, you could keep someone from using a sample of your song in their recording, or at least keep them from ***making any money*** off of their recording. And you've got to be notified, regardless, so Mr. Sumner knew his Ode To Stalking was going to be trans-muted into a Groove For A Dead Friend Released As Quickly As Possible After His Death. Plus, he sang on it at the MTV awards... Use in commercials is completely under the copyright owners' control, so feel free to blame the artists on this one. Unless they sold their publishing to Michael Jackson or someone. As far as motivation is concerned, let's ask Yoko Ono why she sold 'Revolution' to Nike. It's... do I really have to type it? Come on, I'm the Really Cynical Duncan, remember? Remember, most of these artists don't even care what kind of music it is on their new record! Most consistently-succesful artists will do literally whatever kind of music it takes to have a hit. Why is Old Guy Sting singing on Young Guy Puff Daddy's live gig? Cred, duh. The always amazingly-honest Cher just told a magazine(I'm sorry, I don't remember which one, so I can't cross-ref you, my fault) that her record company basically told her she was doing a dance record, and she of course said no, being that she dated Richie Sambora(she's A Rocker, don'tcha know!). They pushed, she gave in, now she's Pro-Tools-Trilling her way to Number One. She of course said she likes dance music now. She also said she liked Sonny Bono, Greg Allman and Gene Simmons(Did anyone groove on how they both played the Super Bowl?). Most of the music you hear on the radio is actually a commercial for the artist, rather than a form of expression. Duncan Watt... But Wait! Buy My New Tape That Puts Your Kids To Sleep, Guaranteed! It's Cool, Natch, But It's Hot, Too! Just Surf Your Little Butt Over To: http://surf.to/duncanwatt And Click On The "Go To Sleep" Picture! Know Any Tired Parents? Looking For The PERFECT BABY SHOWER GIFT? Just Want Your Own Little Oxygen-Thieves To Give You A Little More Time At Night For The Ol' You-Know-What, Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink? WELL WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? BUY NOW! Not Some Deep, Carefully Recorded Piece Reflecting Thirty-Plus Years Of Practice And Experience, It's Just A Parlor Trick Designed To Make Me Money! And While You're There, Check Out More Stuff About My Life! IT'S ALL-WATT, ALL-THE-TIME! LOOK AT MEEEE! LOOK AT MEEEEEEEE!
------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990314222526.006c4e94@mail.interlog.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:25:26 -0500 From: David Oh <davidoh@interlog.com> Subject: dom, again... ok, dom, this is why i responed as i did... it's ok for you to have an opinion & to express it - hey, that's what we're all here for, isn't it? equally, it is ok for that "blows guy" to have his opinion, & to express it, too. it's ok for you to disagree with him, him with you, me with you & we are all together... wait a minute, i've gone off topic there... what i object to is the name calling on your part. it is completely unnecessary! disagree all you want, but enough with the name calling. please! you say what you write is done so in humour. perhaps that is so, but it does not come across as humourous; it's just plain nasty! calling someone a "prized penis" & a "twat" may not be the ultimate insult to you, & maybe your mum uses the same language (perhaps that explains a lot...), but it _is_ insulting &, again, it is completely unnecessary! looking past the nasty words you choose, one can see that you do write with intelligence & you can voice your opinion very well. most of your posts are entertaining, but can't you please keep the personal remarks out of it? have you never heard the adage, "you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar"? sorry, dom, but there's just too much vinegar in your posts. my opinion. your opinion. his opinion. her opinion. agree. disagree. just pull in the reigns on the insults, ok? peace & xtc, davidoh
------------------------------
Message-ID: <003901be6e94$1e436120$19e6e3cf@joel---virginia>
From: "Joel A. Enbom" <joel-a-enbom@kendra.com>
Subject: Seattle Listening Party
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:29:24 -0800
Pardon me for taking up space reserved for the intelligent ones.
I just wanted to publicly thank Jeff Smelser, Lisa, Suzanne Sweeney,
and Jason for representing the Chalkhills mailing list so well at our
listening party Saturday night. A nicer, more personable bunch of people
have not yet crossed my threshhold.
Although there were fewer in attendance than expected, the XTC
neophytes who also visited came away from the evening impressed by and, in
at least one case, newly devoted to following the music of our favorite
Swindonfolk. The afforementioned individuals were instrumental in guiding
the new ears through the lyrical and musical thicket that was on display
that night.
Apparently my calzones didn't cause too much suffering, and my
3-year-old daughter's (making a surprise visit from her home IN THE
JUNGLE!!!) interpretive dance routine during "Greenman" was only a minor
distraction. She's still angry that I didn't play "Your Dictionary" a
second time.
Thanks again, Harrison. I appropriated your "Grand Unifying Theory" on
more than a few occasions and it led to some disarmingly interesting
discussion.
Jeff was nice enough to bring Look Look. I, finally, after all these years
can say authoritatively than Andy (circa "This is Pop") looked JUST LIKE
BECK.
Thanks to Jeff, once more, for bringing Chalkhill's Children '97 - Don't
Ring Us. I was particularly impressed by Steve Clarke's (right?) "Down a
Peg." Nice contributions, Ed Miller, Peter Fitzpatrick, and Senor
Sherwood.
So, one more time, until we do it again, thanks. It was fun.
Joel!
Junior Idiot (trainee)
------------------------------ From: WWi8064839@aol.com Message-ID: <445a9823.36ec7f08@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:31:20 EST Subject: XTC Makes Sunday Globe Comics Section XTC's AV V1 is one of the featured "New Releases!" in the weekly Newbury Comics advertisement, in this Sunday's _Boston Globe_ comics section. The Sunday Globe is New England's most widely read Sunday newspaper, with a circulation of about 250,000. Advertised price for the CD is $13.88. (I'm more of a Boston Herald reader, myself [better comics!]; just thought I'd share this info.) RE: Fruit Nut - at the end, the fadeout on "keeps me sane...keeps me sa-a-a-a- a-a..." From the first listening, I've interpreted the weird vocal effect applied to "keeps me sane" as actually calling into question the singer's sanity. Ray Davies-like satirization of yet another English middle-class "type," comfortable in his surroundings yet inwardly in turmoil? Wes (Wilson) P.S. Craig's Hot Sauce (Green) rules...
------------------------------ Message-ID: <36EC3FC1.1D6AA171@erols.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:01:28 +0000 From: "Neal H. Buck" <nealhbuck@erols.com> Subject: Look Out London! Kids, St. Patrick Day's night (a hard one), I'll be leaving for London for a week's vacation. I'm planning on meeting a couple of Chalkers there, BBlanchard & Melissa from Ohio (also on vacation). A pilgrimage to Swindon is in order, and (literally) along the way to see the actual Chalkhills. Too bad the lads (pretty funny since they're older than most of us - even YOU, Dom!) won't be around. Speaking of age, I was glad when I turned 30 - I didn't have to act like a frat boy anymore (not that I was ever in a frat to begin with). I didn't have that "you're young so go out and party!" attitude. I could just say, "I'm 30 now, I have responsibilities, you can go and destroy all the brain cells you want - been there." So enjoy while you can, and then enjoy not having to ENJOY. Now 40 was a bitch - that brought up the whole mortality thing, and the what have I done with my life stuff. Don't worry about it now, all you whippersnappers, it's not real yet. But guess what? I got over that, too. I guess I'll get thru 50, 60 & 70, too (whoever willing). My take on the line "the son is dead, the father can be born" was two-fold. One, it could've been a nod to the Christian story of Jesus' death leading followers to the Father (God). "Born again" and all that. Second, knowing Andy's aversion to Christianity, perhaps a reference to the death of that religion, and the birth of the pagan father (aka Greenman) belief in his life. Of course, I don't have "Song Stories" yet, and from what I've read in the Digest, it had more to do with parenting. Interesting mental masterbation, though. On the same track, I STILL hear the line as "a knowing church will amplify his call." Not being a native or historian, I'm not sure of the full story, BUT I figure if the church builders put Greenman up on their high church (or High Church) wall, he must of had some place in their practices. Either that, or it could be an assertion that those who "knew" the importance of the Greenman and what he represents will demonstrate that in their lives, consciously or not. "I Can't Own Her" is becoming a favorite now. Even though Andy uses the same effect each time for "the swirling sky," it always feels new and surprising, even. There's just no security in the end. Thanks to Cary Tip, I heard a piece of the WHFS interview of Andy & Colin by Lou Brutus. Unfortunately it was all about the touring thing again. But one thing Andy said about it was interesting, that "he'd been through the phase of being in a gang playing loud guitars." Listening to TB confirms to me that he did, indeed ENJOY performing, at the time, even if he's beyond that now. The change in music from "English Settlement" is so obivous - not a raver! I still like to listen (and dance) to the early stuff AND "original" Punk rock, too. I ALSO have mellowed, and appreciate classical & jazz (though I don't neccessarily know or care WHAT I'm hearing) and, of course, AV1. I like the musings about alternative AV2 titles, and decided that the suggestion "Dandelions Roar" was my favorite. I think the "phallic" symbol on the cover should be a Sunflower, though I don't think that the reference in "I'd Like That" was supposed to be sexual, same with "Ten Feet Tall". To me, they're more about feeling on top of the world, walking on Cloud Nine, all that. However, he does use a flower as phallic metaphor in "Easter Theatre", though it's type isn't identified. A sunflower just seems to be a more "manly" flower than, say, a dandelion or orchid. I think this has been my longest post ever, wake up now! Oh, did I tell you about my 5 hour wait... just kidding ;>) Neal
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199903150410.NAA14771@smtp02.mail.gol.com> Subject: XTC in Tokyo (Take 2) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 99 13:11:02 +0900 From: Mark Goldsmith <markg@gol.com> I was hoping that someone else who attended the signing at Tower Records in Tokyo last week would post an account, so it pleased me to see Mr. Isogai's (and now Osaka resident Michael Wicks') message in a recent digest, but at the same time I was genuinely surprised that he gave such a positive review. For my friend and me, the signing was a towering (higher than a sunflower, say) disappointment. Mr. Isogai had obviously been clued in ahead of time that only the first two hundred people to purchase AV1 at Tower *on the day of the cd's release* would be allowed an audience with the dukes of pop. In neither of two phone calls we had made (one to inquire about the signing, the other to confirm it was happening) to Pony Canyon (XTC's distributor in Japan) was any mention made of this crucial little fact. I arrived at Tower, about half an hour after the signing had started, to find my more punctual friend standing among a large group of milling Japanese in a roped-off area. When I joined him, he gave me the bad news. We soon noticed too that everyone around us had, in addition to a copy of AV1, a little colored coupon, which no amount of feigned ignorance was likely to cause to materialize in our own cd-laden hands. A bit stunned and at a loss what to do, we gazed up at the monitors showing the signing in progress. There were Andy and Colin, flanked by what I assumed were interpreters till reading Michael Wicks' message (maybe "handlers" is a better term), sitting at a table set up on a dais in a corner of the room. The fans were filing past at a rate only slightly more sluggish than that of guests negotiating the receiving line at a wedding of people they hardly know. No one was taking pictures of the two, let alone posing with them in photo ops of a lifetime. After signing, Andy, spurred perhaps by a nervous reflex, would often bow across the table while shaking hands, which, trust me, is a sure-fire way to look like a dork, or worse, a mocking lout (sorry Andy). (To those of you thinking of coming to Japan, the Japanese don't expect you to bow--and certainly not while seated *and* shaking hands. It looks unnatural to them, like witnessing a walrus attempt to sprint.) Colin, whose common sense apparently was working overtime after the long flight the day before, chose to remain upright. Because the line was moving so quickly, and our roped area was shrinking accordingly, we decided, what the hell, we'd remain wedged in and hope for the best, relying on bravado, or, failing that, abject pleading to get what we wanted. This tactic will sometimes work in Japan, as in most places. While shuffling forward, looking as unconcerned as possible, my friend filled me in on the Q & A session I'd missed at the beginning. He hadn't been impressed. Someone had asked Andy for his definition of pop--which he declined to give. Another sample: They were asked about their experience in the United States. Andy rephrased the question, "How did we find America? We turned left at Greenland." This faux bon mot wasn't even notably funny when the Beatles used it lo these many years ago, when the joke was, I presume, already old--some wag (or naif?) among Leif Ericson's crew probably popped it off at the press conference on his return to Norway. Did they really expect the Japanese to catch the reference (particularly in translation)? I somehow doubt it. Rather than make an honest effort to communicate, they merely mumbled (literally) stale drolleries. Cutting to the chase, when we got to the head of the line, the woman collecting the passes wouldn't let us through. We switched from bravado to pleading mode immediately, but to no avail. Rules are rules, eh? You are not allowed to communicate with those other human beings on the stage eight feet in front of you. The few people remaining in line went around us and proceeded to have their cd's signed while we pled our case. To make matters worse (believe it or not) some Tower toad took it upon himself to come over and lend "assistance" in the form of pushing me, while telling me to get back and not to take pictures. (No pictures? In Japan?) Unfortunately, because my arms were loaded down with cd's, Song Stories, daypack, jacket, and camera I couldn't push back. Instead I had to stand my ground as best I could, feeling like Monty Python's Brian trying to reason with the centurion. (You all remember that scene. Hapless Brian tries to give his persecutor a quick lesson in freethinking only to receive the very chilling response, "I like rules.") The situation was pretty grim, to say the least, so I started calling out to Colin, who was closest to us, figuring that once he understood the setup he'd brush aside the restrictions, but apparently he's gotten good over the years at suppressing that reflex that causes one to turn involuntarily in the direction of the person calling one's name. Then I had an idea that I was sure would get us past the flunkies: I asked my friend, who, as luck (I thought) would have it, happens to be the Chicago Tribune's foreign correspondent in Japan, to show his press credentials--but he didn't want to do that! Of all the journalists in the world, I had to end up knowing the one with scruples! Useless! About then the signing ended. But to leave, Andy and Colin had to pass through a door that brought them even closer to where we were standing. As they went by I called out to both of them, but got nothing better than unfocussed glances in my direction. And that was it. Game over. The entire signing mummery, including the Q & A, had been accomplished in an hour and a quarter. I kid you not. They came all the way to Tokyo to interact with their fans for 75 minutes. No wonder Mr. Isogai, who otherwise had no complaint, commented, "I didn't have enough time to talk with them more." You can say that again. In the Beatles Anthology George, Paul, and Ringo recount their 1966 tour of Japan. They describe how every movement was scheduled to the minute. "At precisely 7:30 there will be a knock at your door. At 7:32 you will leave your room. At 7:34 you will take the elevator down to the lobby." Etc. And Ringo says that they used to enjoy messing with the schedule by *not* answering the door, just to watch their Japanese handlers go "barmy", as he puts it. I wish that instead of appropriating the Beatles' America joke, Andy and Colin had adopted their behavior. Who's supposed to be serving whom? What could the Japanese record people have done if Andy and Colin had said they wanted to meet everyone who had taken the time to come out and see them? If I hadn't read in this digest how genial and accommodating they were at the signings in the States, I'd have concluded from my experience that Andy and Colin were a couple of inconsiderate bastards with no interest whatsoever in meeting their fans. As it is, I'm definitely not impressed with them for allowing themselves to be "handled" so thoroughly. And I'll say this, no round of drinks can extinguish this feeling of engulfing disappointment. I've tried. Customary apologies for the uncommonly long posting. Mark Goldsmith
------------------------------ Message-Id: <36EC8A19.2CBD97AA@tmbg.org> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:18:45 -0500 From: Ben Gott/Loquacious Music <gott@tmbg.org> Organization: http://listen.to/loquacious Subject: Converts Abound... Hillers, More news on the XTConversion front...This time, a note from my friend Alex, a sophomore at Yale University: > Hey Ben, > > Good news: I bought XTC as per your recommendation and love it. It's > totally fantastic. It's a little moby, a little glass, a little beatles, and > many more things. Very, very good. Anything you recommend in the future, I > shall promptly purchase. > > talk to you soon, > alex The love just keeps on spreading! My brother also saw the commercial for "AV1" on Comedy Central (he lives in Houston -- I don't know if this makes any difference). He said it was really good, and he was totally psyched to have witnessed TVT's obvious surpassing of Virgin in the promotional department. Good work, TVT -- even though I haven't seen the ad yet! Yesterday, I went to Staples (an office supply store) and bought Kodak t-shirt transfer paper. With the aid of my trusty PowerBook and my new Epson colour printer, I created my very own "Apple Venus" t-shirt. I designed a funky XTC logo so, if anyone's interested in making their own, let me know (I'll e-mail the jpeg file to you). The shirt has definitely turned a few heads around campus (but that's probably because I'm wearing a t-shirt in Maine in the middle of March!) Can anyone tell me (off list, of course) about Richard Thompson's song "Wall of Death"? I heard R.E.M.'s cover the other day, and was really impressed. Wasn't Thompson in Fairport Convention (i.e., another XTC connection)? "AV1" was #16 on Newbury Comics' Top 20. Good job, "AV1"! -Ben
------------------------------
Message-ID: <36EC9785.305401DA@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:15:49 -0800
From: Ken Sanders <moparson@pacbell.net>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Subject: Quick reply on comment by Ballentyne, plus comments on Song Stories and Nonsuch
Howdy again, Chalkers
a third post in almost as many weeks, if not days (it seems to me).
George Ballentyne had this to say in #5-134 after tying the
"Nelson/Hamilton" reference together for fans ignorant (and I mean that
not in a condescending way) of British history:
It's little moments that these that make us British fans realize just
how
exotic some aspects of XTC must seem to fans in other parts of the
world!
And George, it's moments like those that make me, as a fan and
un-abashed Anglophile, want to learn MORE! *S* I can't say there's any
band right now that tweaks my inquisitive streak like XTC does, past and
present incarnations included.
Thanks George, *pleasedtameetcha*
On other topics that are more current of late, I have just
purchased "Nonsuch", and have given it a few listens this afternoon (and
I blame Virgin Records' cowardice in promoting the album for my
unwillingness to purchase it....I feel cheated, by my hesitation AND
Virgin *fie on them*), hearing the foundations for RoO and the rest of
AV1 is a pleasure. Too bad I waited so long *hangs head in shame*
In the same afternoon, I devoured Song Stories *while devouring
nachos, during a rainy California day, in a Del Taco
restaurant*....heady and fascinating read, and like Neville Farmer said
near the end, there's a need to learn more (but I'll let the nourishing
meal of the book digest for a while, and savor the flavor of vicariously
experiencing the journey XTC has trod).
I've rambled on too long, I fear, but in leaving, thanks for the
correction in crediting "Rubberband Man" to the Spinners (NOT Ohio
Players, as I mistakenly noted) Stephanie...glad you enjoyed my bit of
whimsy
Ciao 'n Hors D'oeuveres,
Ken
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990315050559.9723.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:05:59 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Danks <bdanks@rocketmail.com> Subject: Re: Cadbury's Chocolate Nipple Brown Harrison wrote (among many other extremely astute observations): >*God, I'm gonna miss Stanley Kubrick! That, to me, is the gist of it. I mean, the reason I love listening to XTC so much. The same "thing" that drove Mr. Kubrick to make films, I believe, is the same "thing" that drives Messrs. Partridge and Moulding to make music. None of them ever cared what anyone thought (or thinks) of their art, and they will continue to chase (and capture!) the muse until the end, just as Mr. Kubrick did. Farewell, Stanley! Brian D.
------------------------------ From: mollyfa@juno.com Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:23:15 -0500 Subject: Thems Fighting Words Message-ID: <19990315.012316.3590.0.MollyFa@juno.com> If you don't want to read this please page down. Miss Amanda said: <<Alright, that's it. I have lost all respect I ever had for Andy as a person. When he decides to remove his foot from his mouth an get his head out of his ass, maybe I'll feel a bit different. For now, Andy is dead in my eyes. You can flame away all you want, this is my opinion, this is how I feel, so nyah. Dave gave twenty years of his life to that band, and this is what his "friend" does to him.>> Those are fighting words. This is to those people who bad mouth Andy, and I know you have the right to your opinions, but so do I. Okay, I don't really like how people bash Andy. How would you like it if I said something like, "Dave's a real asshole (excuse the language) for leaving XTC or he's just a plain asshole and I've lost all respect of him. How would you react? Well, I myself (if I was a fan of Dave's) be pretty hurt. I would want to defend him as much as possible. I just think Andy's being unfairly badmouthed. So what his and Dave's personalities didn't click, that doesn't mean you have to blame Adny all the way. Maybe it was partly Dave's fault. Maybe he wanted to do stuff Andy didn't want to do. I know I take this a bit more personally than you do, but I really like Andy, and I don't like him being badmouthed in anyway. I know he can be a jerk sometimes, but he's been screwed so many times. Okay that's all for now. And I have changed my mind on the IRC chat. I'll let you know of the date and time of the rescheduled chat. It was my fault for not letting people have a little bit more time to get there. Molly A long time Andy supporter
------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990314234204.00c15e80@pophost.micron.net> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:42:04 -0700 From: Phil Corless <philco@micron.net> Subject: Amanda Loves Dave "S-T-A-L-K-E-R, is that how you spell Amanda in Dave's dictionary?"
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990315073156.20580.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com> Subject: Andy and Joe Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 23:31:55 PST Hi Chalklings Many thanks to David Edwards for his excellent post about the link between Andy and Jospeh Campbell. I had referred to Campbell in an earlier post, as he mentioned, but it's been quite a while since I've read Campbell, and I was planning to go back and do a bit of boning up before I posted more. David saved me the trouble and summarised it most ably. (Also, I realised later that all my Campbell books are in storage!) David - thanks for the concise explanantion of all that the lunar bull/sacrifice/Jesus/tree of life stuff, which was what I was thinking of (but had kinda forgotten). I found some other material on the Web today that might be of use to those interested in this thread. "Easter Theatre" draws quite heavily on Norse mythology. The central source for the Norse mythos is the so-called "Prose (or Younger) Edda", written by the the twelfth century Icelandic historian and poet, Snorri Sturlsson (1178-1241) (great name huh?) whose work was pivotal in preserving the Scandinavian myths and the poetic lore of the Norse Icelanders. Andy specifically refers to Odin, the All-Father, primary god of the Norse pantheon: "Odin mounts the tree Bleeds for you and me" and thus combines images from both Norse and Christian religion. Odin was: "Leader of the Aesir. Odin had a myriad of names including Allfather, Ygg, Bolverk [evil doer], and Grimnir. He also had many functions including being a god of war, poetry, wisdom, and death. His halls were called Gladsheim Valaskjalf and Valhalla. Odin's high seat, Hlidskialf, was in Valaskjalf. It was from this throne that he could see over all the world. Valhalla is where he gathered his portion of the slain warriors, Einheriar, whom the valkyries had chosen." <snip> "Odin sacrificed himself for knowledge by hanging on the world tree, Yggdrasil, which means Ygg's horse. Ygg is a name for Odin and horse is a metaphor for the gallows. He thereby learns the runes. Another sacrifice he made for wisdom was his eye. He gave it up in order to drink from the Well of Mimir which bestowed great knowledge. Because of this, he is typically depicted as having one eye. He is also depicted as wearing a cloak, being old, having a long grey beard, and wearing a wide brimmed hat down low over his face to conceal his one-eyed visage." Andy also refers to the Tree of Life, another central image of Norse mythology, linked to Odin. The Tree of Life/Knwoledge is a very potent reference, since, as David points, out it's common to Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity. It's also a central image in many native American creation myths. To the Norse Icelanders, The Tree of Life is Yggdrasil, a great ash tree, whose branches shade the world, and whose roots support it. Here are some quotes from the Snorra Edda referring to Yggdrasil, which might be of interest: "One of Odin's initial acts as a god was controlling time, founding a balance of light and darkness, assigning courses to seasons and days so they would alternate regularly. The earth showed signs of life as vegetation spread. Walking along the sea's edge, the brothers discovered two downed trees. One was an ash tree, the other, an elm. From the ash tree they molded the first man (Aske) and woman (Embla) and breathed life into them. The humans were placed in Midgard and conceived the human race. The gods then created their own homeland, Asgard, built high above Midgard. Midgard and Asgard were linked by a rainbow bridge <"Smiling from the moist kiss of her rainbow mouth"> called Bifrost. Seated high in a hall in Asgard, Odin overlooks the universe." "The universe was supported by a giant ash tree, the Yggdrasil. Its branches overshadow all worlds. Its three roots reach into Jotunheim (the Giant's world), Niffleheim (the place of darkness), and Asgard, the godly domain. There are springs by each root. The root in Asgard is kept by three goddesses (the Norns), the Fates (Urdur, the past; Verdandi, the present; Skuld, the future). A squirrel (Ratatosk) runs up and down the trunk bearing words from the eagle to the dragon at the base. The eagle and a hawk are perched on its branches. Four deer frolic around the tree, eating its buds. At the base of the ash gnaws Nidhogge, the dragon who one day would succeed in toppling the Yggdrasil, bringing down the universe." The Norse mythos, in common with many Asian and American myths, saw the world as a cyclical process of succeeding ages. After the age of the gods, led by Odin, there was to be a final cataclysmic battle between the gods and the forces of evil, in which the entire world would be destroyed, then born anew. "Far away, hidden from the heaven-high fires will be the seeds of another generation, a generation of man coexisting with the gods, a loving and peaceful people. This man and woman, concealed in the Yggdrasil, are called Lif and Lifthrasir. Earth will arise from the waters to greet them with new blades of grass and vegetation. The sun will reappear in all its previous resplendence. Balder will return from the world of the dead, with new gods, and they will sit down in the green fields, laughing beneath the blue sky and remembering the old world." Sound familiar? The Norse creation myths are also very closely allied to ancient Germanic mythology, chiefly known through the famous 13th century German work "Das Nibelungenlied" <http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Nibelungenlied/> which was the inspiration for Wagner's opera-cycle "The Ring of the Niebelungen".) * --------------------------------- Andy also refers obliquely to the Norns (Fates), who spin out the fates of mortal lives as a thread, "As the prompter's fingers through her spinning script" They are one of many common links between Norse and Greek mythology, such as the link between the Baldur and the Christ myths. "Odin had a son, Baldur. Baldur feared for his life after several disturbing dreams. So he should feel secure, his mother, Frigg, asked of all living things, "Promise me not one of you should ever harm my son." All the gods but Odin thought Frigg took sufficient measures to protect Balder and threw stones and darts at him in jest. Loki, a protean god, gained the confidence of Frigg when he disguised himself as a woman and asked if there were anything that could harm Balder. Frigg said, "Nothing. I have received all the oaths." Loki pursued the question--"Everything?" Frigg admitted she neglected asking the Mistletoe, a plant growing near Asgard, but was not concerned. Loki left and returned with the plant. He gave it to Hodur, a blind god, and told him to throw it at Balder. Loki formed the plant into a dart, and when Hodur threw it, the dart pierced Balder. Balder died and the gods mourned him. Loki was caught and bound, to be released only at the world's end." This mourning period of the gods is the Norse explanation for the origin of the seasons, and is similar to the Greek myth of the abduction of Persephone. "Now the son has died, the father can be born". * --------------------------------- I was really tickled to read that Andy knows Campbell's work! I can't imagine how I didn't realise it before. I discovered Campbell about 7 years ago, after I saw "The Power of Myth" on TV - I bought all the books and devoured them. A brilliant mind, and I can see exactly why it would appeal to Andy. Every time I hear religious types raving on I find myself wishing they would shut up, go away and read "The Masks of God" before they opened their mouths again. Anyway, I hope this discussion will inspire a few more people to check out his work. He really is one of the great minds of the century. You can find more about Campbell at the Joseph Campbell Foundation website: http://www.jcf.org/ and there is a great WWW source on Norse mythology on the WWW at: http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~cherryne/mythology.html Dunks
------------------------------ Message-ID: <36ECC0FA.7928@wxs.nl> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:12:42 +0100 From: strangeways <huggers2@wxs.nl> Subject: your dictionary Question. Why does Partridge sing "four-eyed fool" in Your Dictionary? Is it some kind of english saying that I don't know about? Or could it be a pun, is he actually saying "for I'd fool you, lead round everywhere" Just guessing. ~Ruud~
------------------------------ Message-ID: <36ECD5F0.30CB6713@lucent.com> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 09:42:08 +0000 From: JP Nicholls <nicholls@lucent.com> Organization: It came off in my hand, Mum! Subject: The Green Man and pagan iconography in English Churches The tiny church at Kilpeck in Herefordshire is cover in pagan symbols. This is an amazing building. The sculptors of the day (c.1200 AD) were immersed in the local pre-Christian culture, and this was expressed in their work. Anyone with any interest in England's pagan roots cannot fail to be interested in this building. If you are visiting the UK and trailing round some historical sites, Kilpeck is worth a visit. It is beautiful and utterly unspoiled. In fact I have reservations telling people about the place in case more people visit and it is ruined by tourism.... It has a splendid example of a green man (with the customary vines coming from his mouth) at the top of the right hand pillar of the main door. He can be seen at the bottom of the large central picture at the following location, although this picture doesn't do the doors justice: http://nessie.mcc.ac.uk/~ft/Doors/index.html Kilpeck also has a perfectly-preserved Sheela-Na-Gig, a pagan symbol of a grotesque woman holding open her massively distended vulva. The history of this symbol alone could fill several volumes of Chalkhills. Blessed Be ... -- JP Nicholls / nicholls@lucent.com "Someone take these dreams away"
------------------------------ Message-Id: <4782AD6ADDBDD2119B570008C75DD5C1021F31@MGMTM02> From: Lawson Dominic <LawsonD@parliament.uk> Subject: Crisis Schmisis Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:15:45 -0000 Your concern is heartwarming, dear Chalksods. I'm touched. No, really. >>> I own at least two Bruce Springsteen records >>>To mimic the bully kid on The Simpsons, "Hah Hah!!" Oh, you never should have admitted that one. Yeah, been kicking myself ever since I clicked on "send". Damn. I could, of course, explain myself but then that would sound eerily like desperation. Oh fuck it, here goes.... Springsteen LP #1 is "Nebraska". Deeply depressing load of mumbling and I-could-do-better-style acoustic guitar. Strangely, it's great. Bought it for 50p when a second-hand record shop in Brighton closed down... Springsteen LP #2 is "The River". Deeply depressing (but for a whole different reason) double album of uniformly dreadful honking and bleating from a man who really should shave a bit more often. Bought from the same shop, but for a whole Earth pound. I was robbed. You're right though, I've really blown it now. As long as no one finds out about my tijuana brass collection I should be alright..... >>The ability to appreciate a good tune doesn't mean you're an aging sellout. It just means you're maturing in your tastes. Hmmm....I getcha, Mr B, I getcha....but I hope you're not suggesting that listening to, say, Napalm Death constitutes a lack of maturity, taste-wise. Personally I would say that listening to such intense and often complex music requires a great deal more maturity of judgement and musical awareness than listening to Crydid Hyce (as we call them in Westminster) but then I'm just getting shirty because I know you're (mainly) right. Smarty-pants. >>"39 is NOT middle aged!" It bloody is, especially when you smoke as much as I do. Splutter. Cough. >>I also still own 1 Springsteen album (and I'm mortified to admit that it's not even one of the good ones - wait, there were none!) Yes, alright. Jesus, I wish I'd said Nik Kershaw... Don said: >>So I can't call it "boffo", Dom, but "stonkingly good" is OK? I suppose so. "Boffo" is definitely a stabbing offence, but "stonkingly good" is just about bearable. For future reference I recommend any of the following: "Corking", "cracking", "chuffing marvelous", "a veritable rip-snorter", "arse-wideningly superb", "pant-shittingly great" or just plain old "shit hot". Boffo schmoffo... Quick, time to be pedantic... >>This leaves "Bagman" (The Fall) to clean up the mess.. Er,...."Carry Bag Man", actually. But you were close-uh. >>and "Lonely Man" (The Godfathers) Fantastic. It wasn't just me then? Anyone else remember "Sun Arise"? >>Where be any "South Bay" Chalkers? Firstly, "are there any" or "where are all the" would both be less twattish than "where be", but again I am being a rotten old meanie. Secondly, I've absolutely no idea, does South Coast count? Where be "South Coast" Chalkers? That's what I want to know... >> Not to sound like Joan Jett, but I love rock 'n roll! You and me both, tiger. All this prissy nonsense about punk being "easy" to do is absolute crap. We know this because there were BAD punk bands (too many to mention) and GREAT punk bands (similarly too many to mention but Sex Pistols, Ramones, Dead Kennedys and Discharge will do for starters). The bad stuff is easy to do: three chords, play fast, shout a bit. The great stuff is great precisely because of the same reasons why we love XTC. Great songs, well played, with loads of testicular welly. Magic. Also, what's wrong with Joan Jett? Put another dime in the jukebox, baby, and all will be revealed... Anyway, get up on stage with me and I dare any of you to play any of my band's songs. No ****ing chance, buddy. And we're punk as **** (even with my haircut). Swear, spit, pogo etc.... Dom.
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