Chalkhills Digest Volume 5, Issue 240
Date: Friday, 30 July 1999
Chalkhills Digest, Volume 5, Number 240
Friday, 30 July 1999
Today's Topics:
Agony Andy
Chick rock
Apologies and Imperial Sprouts
Two penneth worth of opinion
Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated?
It's about time we started the "wanking" thread again......
A Band for the 70's you say?
Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor (No XTC)
Homespun = AV1.2
THIS, THAT, & THE MATHER
Categorisation
Nothing else to do.
Another Damn Dave Barry Book
I have to comment on something
RE: Sting
XTC desktop clock
Yes, Phil Gives Me XTC
1. Punk; 2. Commercials; 3. The history od Rock and roll.
River of Siberia?
An it harm none, do what thou wilt
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-Id: <199907290259.WAA18306@nantucket.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 22:32:59 -0400 Subject: Agony Andy From: "Diamond" <arnos@nantucket.net> I found something in an AP interview that might pertain to recent threads about Music "I like what I like and I still hear good music and bad music. It's roughly the same ratio as it ever was ; maybe 5, 10% is gonna be good and the other 90% is just driftwood, it's just not worth thinking about; and that's the same through whatever period of history we're talking about." Head His Advice, all Kevin
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199907290336.UAA22588@matisse.posinet.com> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 20:34:09 -0700 From: Queenie <queenie@pomn.com> Subject: Chick rock >To Queenie: >While Alanis Morissette was very effective in bringing >"angry, girl-power rock to the mainstream," her predecessors >include not only L7 and the Deal twins (2/4 of The Breeders), >but Patti Smith and Chrissie Hynde (of The Pretenders), >whose impassioned estrogen spewed all over the male- >dominated rock-and-roll scene more than two decades ago >and included substantial radio air play (depending where >you lived and what time you tuned in). I'm sure others >on this list can supply additional "girl-power rock" >examples that predate Patti Smith's first record in 1974. Yep, them too! I have thought of some more, going way back to Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, even Tina Turner, back in the day! (although she was being driven by a maniacal man). More recently, PJ Harvey, Kim Gordon, Liz Phair. When I think back to the nineties and remember female rockers, I will probably think of PJ Harvey first. But the mainstream folks will probably think of Alanis Morissette. What's the difference between Alanis and all of the aforementioned ladies of rock from the nineties? She's the only one that doesn't play an instrument in addition to singing.
------------------------------ Message-ID: <379FD7D5.47DE@gte.net> Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 21:25:58 -0700 From: "May O'Mahoney" <may5272@gte.net> Subject: Apologies and Imperial Sprouts Dear Chalkheads, I would like to start off this posting with an apology: I'M SORRY! What's that for? (Half of you probably didn't even notice my griping halfway down the page...) It's for the fact that I complained of 'word excessiveness' in the previous issue. It was a bit on the harsh side. Write away! Write away! Who am I to complain about long contributions? If irony has its way, I will be the next offender. Thoroughly confused now? Good, don't even bother to read my previous post. Ignorance is bliss. Robert Baumgartner writes: "Personally, I would choose Elvis Costello from the 80's (listen to 'Imperial Bedroom')" BRAVO! "I think Paddy McAloon is criminally underrated. If you think XTC are kind of obscure, just mention the Sprouts to somebody. THAT'S obscure! Great music, though. Gerswhin + McCartney + Jimmy Webb= a very unique sound for Paddy. And their last CD (1997's "Andromeda Heights") hasn't even been released in America. That's not good." BRAVO BRAVO!! Prefab Sprout! My goodness it's been a long time since I've heard anyone utter those two words! It's even spelled right! (grin) They are delightful and am disappointed that I haven't heard the '97 release. Cheers Until Next Time, May
------------------------------ Message-ID: <000801bed7bb$3a466260$a53bac3e@vucqprlj> From: "David Seddon" <D.Seddon@btinternet.com> Subject: Two penneth worth of opinion Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 00:00:01 +0100 What is beyond the gauge of good or bad? The musings of various people saying what is important from each decade has both interested and amused me. 99% of pop is indeed crap...but, I guess that there's no other decade to get people talking a load of Betty Swollocks than the 70s. Yes? Er...no thanks. Just about the only thing more pompous is Meatloaf. Some of the artists that have been mentioned have been people I have never heard of and doubtless lots of others on the list haven't either. Realistically, history shows that those who are valued in their time most often are later...Beethoven, Chopin, Wordsworth and most others you can mention. There are exceptions to this general rule. Lots of them even: but it usually holds. Some exceptions: Ruskin was a great artist to the Victorians, now he's just a critic, Mozart wasn't given his due (tho' he was hardly ignored), Van Gogh never sold a painting outside his family. Much as I love them, it is unlikely that The 13th Floor Elevators will be considered as important artists by historians in 2150!! My list may seem a tad unadventurous, but it is perhaps nearer common sense. I may seem a bit Euro biased, but I do believe that most American rock since the 60s has been incredibly anal and stirs the intellect about as much as a trainspotter's notebook. Do we really have to restrict ourselves to just one artist from each era? Let's have five from each. Here's my pick of who will still be important and what will still be listened to and analysed in 50 years time, either because they were excellent creators, inovators or both: The 50s has to be more jazzers, the 60s is hard to restrict to 5 and the 80s and 90s more difficult to predict just yet. 50s: Elvis (tho' I don't care much for him), Buddy Holly, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Sonny Rollins 60s: Beatles (I could say that 5 times such was their influence), Dylan, Beach Boys, Velvet Underground, Cat Stevens (for his excellent songwriting. I believe that he wrote many true classics) 70s: Kraftwerk (IMHO the most influencial group since the Beatles. NB...not best, just influencial), David Bowie, Roxy Music, Sex Pistols (not that I like them either!), Nick Drake 80s: Kate Bush, Queen (could have picked them in the 70s, too), Talking Heads, The Happy Mondays (not so sure of these, but perhaps they represent something that was new), XTC...well, who was it who said "you gotta have faith"? Well I guess it would be nice. 90s: REM, PM Dawn (Like the man said, do you spell rap with a big or a small C, but if it has to be rap let it be intelligent), I'd love to include Julian Cope for his incredible creative and eclectic output. Probably not much chance, but he deserves more credit! I'm not sure who else yet, but not Kurt Cobain!! I do believe that he suffers from the JFK syndrome. To get off the point for a minute...it's a load of fuss about a wastrel who didn't deserve much credit at all, but got it due to hype, bullshit and some crazy notion of a beautiful hero who died young...I mean, Kurt was not in the same league as Jimmi Hendrix or the Buckleys, for instance, and JFK was just about the worst president and human being to get into the Whitehouse...Yet these boys snatch the media plaudits. Why? It's a gigantic media con that relies on mass-hysterical thoughtlessness. I do not think that Kurt was morally corrupt like JFK, but he's drawn similar bewildering, nonsensical praise. I can take the freaked out comments of those who want to throw that back at me! Ok, off the soap box now, me boy. Also worth a mention are Pink Floyd and Van Morrison, who one can't pigeon hole so well. Future students of pop culture will also look at Abba, the Boy Band phenomenon, The Spice Girls, Madonna and Michael Jackson. Thus, their names will live on, but one would hope that they would not be seriously studied for musical content. I'd like to have included Simon and Garfunkel, Cat Stevens, Talk Talk and others, but last word goes to an ancient antipodean entertainer who bestrides all of these decades like a colossus... Rolf Harris. Who of my age doesn't yearn to wake up to the old buffer singing Sun Arise in his front room?!
------------------------------ Message-ID: <37A0CF02.D48F36E5@averstar.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:00:46 -0400 From: Harrison Sherwood <sherwood@averstar.com> Organization: Averstar, Inc. Subject: Ever Get the Feeling You've Been Cheated? > From: T Lewis <tlewis@televar.com> > Subject: Fashion foolery > > De-lurking.... ...To stay de-lurked for a long time, it is fervently hoped. Thank you very much, T., that was beautiful. I dig your comical strip too, and wish the Washington Post didn't have its head so far up its ass. It's plain you've worshipped at the altar of Walt Kelly a time or two, and I for one congratulate you for it. > From: "Duncan Kimball" <dunks58@hotmail.com> > Subject: No, it just smells funny Right on time, and in characteristically laserlike phashion, One of Our Duncans cuts through the Jovian Methane Atmosphere with a devastating pair o' Socratic thingamajigs: > Q: What IS "rock" exactly? > > Q: How exactly does one define whether it is dead? Yep. Yep. Yeppity Yep. It couldn't be plainer that there are approximately 1,500 unique and mutually contradictory answers to these questions flying around here like gnats on a rightfielder, and until we have a commonly agreed-upon set of definitions this thread could get seriously out of hand. 'Nother words, I think Cross-Purposes are getting tired of being talked at, and are beginning to pine for some action. In my 78 years on this planet, the only thing that's been declared dead more times than rock is Joe Dimaggio, and I'm not so sure we've heard the last from him, either. On the other hand (the one I use for pleasuring myself), it was not without some Rotten _schadenfreude_ that I surfed past VH-1 Sunday night, watched with amused detachment as rock's leading light Anthony Keidis of the Red Hot Chili Peppers enthusiastically endorsed empty-headed New Age feelgood capitalist Deepak Chopra (sign up for his seminar, "Spiritual Seduction," for a mere $2,695 -- http://www.chopra.com/courseSOSoxford.htm). AT EXACTLY THE SAME MOMENT, over on pay-per-view (only $29.95 per day!) the funloving party animals who'd shelled out $150 for the privilege of shelling out $4 for a 20-ounce bottle of water and endangering their credit ratings by signing up for a Commemorative Souvenir Visa Card, were setting ablaze the last vestiges of the Woodstock Notion as Keidis & the Peps warbled through a cover of "Fire"--which, the Irony Gods decreed, was brought to us by the man who exploded guitaristic bombs and rockets while closing the original Woodstock Festival 30 years ago. Rock on. Add to this the humanity-affirming report in this morning's paper (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/july99/woodstock29.htm) that the authorities are investigating many eyewitness reports that women were being gang-raped in the moshpit at the Festival of Peace and Love, and that security personnel may have been aware of it but unable to prevent it. "'Due to the congestion of the crowd,' read the police investigation report, '[one victim] felt that if she yelled for help or fought, she feared she was going to be beaten.'" As a consolation prize, I understand the unfortunate young lady has been offered free tickets to the 30th Anniversary of the Altamont Festival later this year, and told to dress more modestly. Does this disastrous and utterly numbing event have any bearing on our discussion of the Death of Rock? Perhaps; but consider the enormous stake invested by the Big Six record companies and their concert-promotion and subsidiary-marketing counterparts--a Megalopoly if ever there was one, its power concentrating upward at a rate undreamed of even by Marx--in the endless repackaging of The Sixties as a bankable brand. The result has been a terrible dilution of historical understanding of that decade, a horrible, reductionist oversimplification of the Sixties to a series of evocative but ultimately meaningless symbols, wrenched from context and pasted to crappy merchandise. Brand Sixties has engendered a nihilism that is as deep as it is perfect. From Littleton to the Limp Bizkit moshpit, it's a nihilism that arises from a culture that tolerates--rewards!--the violence of the rich against the poor, the strong against the weak, the jock against the nerd, the rapist against his victim. Peace and love, sister--now show us your tits. Ugly world. Ugly, ugly world. Harrison "Piss Factory indeed" Sherwood
------------------------------ From: Iain.Murray.70428176@army.defence.gov.au Message-Id: <4A2567BD.007FC514.00@stagemaster.army.defence.gov.au> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:19:52 +1000 Subject: It's about time we started the "wanking" thread again...... >>Dom Wrote: <<Because he's shit. And anyone who thinks otherwise is a wanker. (See what I mean? Get it out in the open - you'll feel much better!).....>> >>So I'm a wanker? I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm >>in this group, at least according to Dom. >>Molly Watch the fishes swim right up and take the bait you offered, like you knew they would.... Iain
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990729234854.8688.rocketmail@web118.yahoomail.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 16:48:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Jon Rosenberger <wile1coyote@yahoo.com> Subject: A Band for the 70's you say? Greetings chalkites, I will weigh in with only one opinion on this whole can of worms that has opened up regarding a rocker defining a decade... >From the last chalk----"I guess we've gone around this issue, but never asked one interesting question: WHY can't we define a "most important" artist of the 70s? We're far enough removed from that decade, don't you think? I'm very curious now." LED ZEPPELIN. At least here in the Midwest of the USA. Not the best, not the brighest, but you cannot change the fact that they dominated the airwaves for the entire decade. Not even a personal fave of mine actually but they were/are truly HUGE. They created a huge industry and paved the way for many of the corporate rockers of the 80's and 90's. Whether you view that as positive or negative you can not deny that they had the most impact. The only possible band to compete with their legacy is the Sex Pistols. Interestingly both were from the UK. XTC Content: I just received the Japaneese version of the Black Sea LP and it has a wonderful lyric insert....In Japaneese. :-D Listening to: It's Nearly Africa themolefromtheministry
------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:54:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19990729185509.65b78070@unlinfo.unl.edu> From: Dave Hughes <dhughes@unlinfo.unl.edu> Subject: Richard Thompson's Mock Tudor (No XTC) John in Japan wrote: >Dave Mattacks presented me with a cassette of " Mock Tudor " a few months >back ... I suggest that EVERYONE on the list run out and get it in August. I, too, have heard the new one by Richard Thompson (Mock Tudor), and it is Thompson's best since Rumor and Sigh (from 1991). BTW, Thompson and band (sorry, no Mattacks, he's on tour with some country singer) will resume their tour in the US in September, hit the UK in October, and come back to the Northeastern part of the US in November. This tour is hot! * -------------------------------------------- Dave Hughes Host of "Late in the Evening" Nebraska Public Radio * --------------------------------------------
------------------------------ Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990729192201.009628c0@mail.clemson.edu> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:29:15 -0400 From: Adam Tyner <ctyner@clemson.edu> Subject: Homespun = AV1.2 >WTDK@aol.com wrote: >>>> >...Amazon has a listing for an album by Xtc called >Homespun. It won't be released until Oct. 12. Is this the Japanese >compilation of the singles or could it be the all the demos? Anybody >have a clue? <<<< Yup, Homespun is Apple Venus 1, part 2, according to http://www.sirencd.com/ -Adam
------------------------------ From: WESnLES@aol.com Message-ID: <3d933e2c.24d25ae6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:33:26 EDT Subject: THIS, THAT, & THE MATHER CHALKGEEKS: A while back someone traded me a tape with Cotton Mather on the B side, and Owsley on the A. I'm lookin' for this fine lad, got some questions about Cotton Mather......anyone know anything about 'em? As for the music scene....I'm about to turn 33, so I was old enough to get into a bit of the 70's scene, but I'm more or less a child of the 80's......nothing much has actually changed if you think about it...for me at least. I mean...none of the bands I loved in the 80's got much, if any, radio play........and none of the bands I love today do either. Radio is a sound salvation, radio is cleaning up the nation, wesLONG
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990730014251.29642.rocketmail@web308.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:42:51 +1000 (EST) From: Brent Palmer <brent_palmer@yahoo.com.au> Subject: Categorisation > ...Fans come to xtc from several areas. Some of > these include [musicians, Punks, "pop" fans, etc.]. Please understand that I am not saying that >all list-members fall > into one of these categories. In fact no one may > exactly fit into one. > But I feel that these are relevant generalities. > Well, if nothing else, this lists serves to bring > together people > from these diverse "cultures"... True. Different folks appreciate the view from varying angles. Personally, the "category" I gravitate towards (give-or-take) would be the "muso"-type. Although without formal musical training (as such), the only applicable "label" is that I'm moved by quality, intelligent music which actually _means_ something. This has resulted in a rather eclectic array of tastes (XTC, later Beatles, Radiohead, They Might Be Giants; early Miles Davis, guitarist John Schofield; classical works by Mozart, Shubert and Beethoven; et al!). Stuff which warmly invites you to slap on a decent pair of 'phones, and just milk the music for every nuance - or conversely, enjoy the same melding together as a whole. The two things which really draw me in to a piece of music are: (1) a melody line or chord sequence that has the listener's brain anticipating a particular note/chord, but instead "wrong-footing" it with an entirely different one that still "fits" perfectly; and (2) several elements coming together, disparate yet rendered inseparable. And let's face it, "Messrs P and M" are extraordinarily adept at employing both aspects. As an aside: re. the "rock is dead" debate... While the last ten-or-so years have decreed the "rock" genre be frog-marched to the treadmill, bludgeoned, left to fatally haemmorage, then finally dragged in the direction of the local taxidermist, methinks the very _term_ lost relevance courtesy of _Rubber Soul_ (viz. "Norwegian Wood", "Eleanor Rigby")! As reggae, techno, rap/hip-hop, etc. later clambered beneath the "rock" umbrella, is that four-letter moniker remotely valid? Anyway, hence concludes my two cents' worth. Brent Palmer Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
------------------------------ From: OMBEAN1@aol.com Message-ID: <4eaf02cd.24d25da8@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 21:45:12 EDT Subject: Nothing else to do. Hillers, Where do you people find the time to debate in such detail. These 10 page responses drive me crazy.There was good & bad music in every decade.You like what you like , I'll like what I like.Theyre opinions. Theres plenty more that you can do. Get a job,cut the grass,vacuum the pool,walk the dog....... Come on Andy & Colin, put SOMETHING out now! Crazy from the heat, Roger p.s. My 8 yr old nephew has "Greenman" memorized.Awesome.
------------------------------ Message-Id: <199907300116.VAA20707@nantucket.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 20:50:06 -0400 Subject: Another Damn Dave Barry Book From: "Diamond" <arnos@nantucket.net> I have a question to any people who might be shreikback fans. I just bought "Go Bang" by them, my irst purchess by them ever. I guess it's all right, butI don't like it that much. Did I make a wrong choice for first listening to this band? Is Go Bang not a good encapselment of what Shreikback are like? If so, can you tell me which one I should buy next? Thanx! By the way, I don't know if anyone on this thing are They Might Be Giants fans, but if there are, I thought I'd tell you that every Thursday night at ten O'Clock, for the next eight weeks (Starting tonight, but It won't be tonight when you read this... whoa, I just got myself very confused) TMBG will be performing original songs on "Nightline in Primetime," an eight week special. Also, about the "Homespun" thing, it sounds, by the likes of what Takashi said, that Homespun is an actuall album. I would asume it's taking the place of the Japanease Mini-album, since that was cancelled. But I cul be wrong. Another idea is that Homespun could have been the working title for Fuzzy Warbles, and amazon never got word of it. (This happened with Dave barry once. One of his books was GOING to be called "Another Damn Dave Barry Book." It was eventually changed to "Dave Barry is from Mars AND venus," but, still to this day, I think, they still have the other title on.
------------------------------ From: mollyfa@juno.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 01:24:13 -0400 Subject: I have to comment on something Message-ID: <19990730.012418.2990.0.MollyFa@juno.com> I have to make a few comments about what's been going on here lately. I love all types of music including R&B and Hip Hop. I resent it that some people in this group think that if you like progressive music you can't like any others. I listen to ABBA-Ozzy Osbourne-Tina Turner-TLC-Salt'n'Peppa-Pink Floyd. So I have a very eclectic musical tastes. I just don't like how people can bad mouth someone who doesn't like a certain type of music. Have I ever bad mouthed a person for what type of music they like? I don't think I did, and if I did I'm sorry. Molly
------------------------------ Message-Id: <4782AD6ADDBDD2119B570008C75DD5C12DB5DB@mgmtm02.parliament.uk> From: Lawson Dominic <LawsonD@parliament.uk> Subject: RE: Sting Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:30:27 +0100 >>So I'm a wanker? I like Sting, but of course I can't like him when I'm in this group, at least according to Dom. Oh for God's sake!!! It was a joke!!! Jesus wept, how blatant can I be???? >> Dom, you defend your choice by saying something to the effect of "how closeminded of you to put down Lauryn Hill or hip-hop, just because you personally don't like it" But, you do the same Dom. I know. Your response to my (or anyone) liking Sting or (shudder) Phil Collins would be to spew. Or to say, "They Suck". And not without good reason in Phil Collins' case. But that's not the point. I know Phil COllins' music, as most of us do, rather better than I would like. I've heard most of his albums sufficiently often that I feel I can pass judgement. You don't have to agree. However, when someone criticizes something despite clearly having no discernible interest in or knowledge of the genre in question, their statements don't really carry much weight. If you think I know fuck all about music then you're sadly mistaken. For whatever reason, some of you seem to know fuck all about Hip Hop - as proved by the remarks and the comparisons you make. I know plenty about Phil Collins - far more than is strictly desirable - and I have concluded that his records are vile. If you can argue against Hip Hop from a similarly strong position then let me know. As for Sting, I actually quite like a lot of his stuff. As I say, it was a joke, and not a very subtle one at that. >>However, you seem extremely sensitive when anyone chooses to "buck popularity" and say Lauryn Hill sucks. Maybe they are not trying to be alternative. Maybe they genuinely think her music sucks. Maybe! Sorry, but it's hard to tell when people have such weak arguments. Besides which, there is often a bizarre air of superiority on this list. I see no virtue in slagging something off when you don't have the requisite appreciation of the relevant genre - there are no points to be won by appearing either 'alternative' or 'mainstream', especially as XTC could quite reasonably be described as both. I don't actually care that much if anyone likes Lauryn Hill's album or not. I don't even care if you all think I'm an arsehole - there's always some feeble-minded reactionary keen to send me an abusive e-mail when they don't recognize blatant sarcasm or hyperbole - I just object to po-faced literalism, kneejerk reactions to perfectly reasonable comments and seemingly deliberate mis-interpretations of what I'm, none too obliquely, trying to say. Is this a discussion forum or Jerry Springer? Cheers anyway - at least I haven't mentioned Metal this time. Oops. DOM.
------------------------------ Message-ID: <37A172EC.BFE4E87D@gallicrow.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 10:39:56 +0100 From: Jon Eva <joneva@gallicrow.co.uk> Organization: Gallicrow Software Subject: XTC desktop clock Dear All, I've written a clock program for the PC (Win 95/98/NT) and created a few XTC clocks for it. If you want to download it then go to http://www.gallicrow.co.uk/CandyClock.html Please note that you'll need to download the XTC clocks separately as they're not part of the main package. The program is free. Jon Eva
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990730110505.80190.qmail@hotmail.com> From: "damian marley" <damian5a@hotmail.com> Subject: Yes, Phil Gives Me XTC Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 04:05:04 PDT (Ooops, sorry, sent you a string of garbage, please disregard - read THIS one instead - Damian) During the What Is Rock debate, several people haven't seemed terribly keen on Yes. Well, heaven for me is a flat green pasture with an infinitude of rock and roll stages peppered across the vista, and you can walk for days across the land with a beer stubbie in hand, discovering live performances from the musicians who changed your life . . . oooh, look! There's XTC! And over there beyond those trees - it's Yes!! And could that be Genesis over on that stage? I don't care what anyone says, I shamelessly adore Genesis, Yes, XTC. These bands are ace.
------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990730120506.007c5d50@popmail.iol.it> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:05:06 +0200 From: Giovanni Giusti <giovanni@delizia.com> Subject: 1. Punk; 2. Commercials; 3. The history od Rock and roll. Okie chalkies, 1) True, XTC never were "punk" in the strict sense of the word (they could play their instruments, for one thing). All I was saying is that they were marketed as such and that many of us got to know them through the whole "punk/new wave" scene. (Speaking of which I really liked Shawn Berkeley's post, I agree with it 100%. Whew.) 2) While I don't remember any commercials with XTC songs in them, I do remember that the jingle from an old, pre-MTV music hour on commercial TV in Italy was Generals and Majors. Basically, after they were finished with a video, the DJ would pop back onscreen and start blabbing with G&M on the background. That unfortunately didn't raise the flatness of the programme. 3) Apart from XTC, each of us have our tastes regarding past and present music. This should allow us to conclude that XTC are such a wide-ranging and diverse band that they do not fit into one single genre. All the more love to them. Giovanni
------------------------------ Message-ID: <19990730125129.27910.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 05:51:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Funk <funkadelic9@yahoo.com> Subject: River of Siberia? Chalkerz......... ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!! I've seen grown men pull there own heads off rather than listen to Hip Hop!!!!!!!!!! There!..... Discussing it just perpetuates my misery! Onto this Yes thread... A good friend and fellow chalker, The other, other Chris (no sheds), pointed this out to me recently: The chorus from ROO and the chorus from Yes' Siberian Khatru are strikingly similar: Ri-ver of Or-chids.... E-ven Si-Ber-i-a...... etc. It is probably pure coincidence, but you never know... AP may have had that melody in the back of his mind. Oh well, food for thought anyway.. Jomama P.S. If Dave is too slick a guitarist, have AP give me a ring! I am very non-slick ( wipes the pam from forehead )and know the chord to Greenman....
------------------------------ From: JEFFREY.THOMAS.JT@bayer-ag.de Subject: An it harm none, do what thou wilt Message-Id: <0006800013715957000002L072*@MHS> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:44:06 +0200 Hi all you "Kreideberger" out there, Just back from vacation/holiday in Merrye Olde Englande (and you all missed me to pieces, right?) and am in the process of catching up on my post. Just about 160 mails including 15 or so Chalkhills, and I'm up to #235 so far. No, Dave-Kimberley-John-Malady, I haven't fallen off the earth, I'm back, and you'll be hearing from me! Before anyone (Mark S.?) asks, I drove BY Swindon, going west on the A4 and east on the M4, but unfortunately I wasn't IN Swindon, so I missed yet another chance to meet our heroes at the guitar shop (we all know where that is now, don't we?) or at the local vendor of tin soldiers and offer to take them on a ride to see the White Horse; I also missed the "XTC/Moodies/Swindon's finest" mural and the Magic Roundabout. Oh well, there's always a next time. The rest of the trip was fab, down there in Wiltshire/Devon/Cornwall/Somerset, great place, very mystical. But you -- and I -- already know that. What I really was dying to report -- and thought was all so interesting -- was apparently already discussed in some earlier posts, judging from the matter-of-fact way it bas been being discussed in the Chalkhills digests I received in my absence. I was in the Witch Museum in Boscastle (very interesting indeed) and was struck by the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt" and the modernised Pagan Confederation version, "If it harms none, do as you will". The "Apple Venus" bells in my head were chiming big time when I read that. Wow, now I knew that all the pagan stuff Andy was talking about in his shed on "The Making of..." has a written, established basis. But you all know that now, too. So, to cut this short, I saw all sorts of Green Men and Eostre, the goddess of spring, and eggs and rabbits and all that. I understand the symbolism a bit better now. I bought a "Green Man" book from Paul Broadhurst, a fascinating fellow (and followed the Mary Line). And I did my bit for our boys by telling the proprietors of the museum about "Greenman", "Easter Theatre", and a few other songs, so they ought to be buying their copy of "AV1" as soon as they can order one. Maybe Paul will stock it at "The Mystical Place". Loads of interesting stuff in my back issues of Chalkhills; some seems to demand comment: Lot of people writing about "ES" and its goodness or badness, but Brent's post is the one I liked best because of the wonderful oblique Monty Python reference. Silly bunt indeed. I'm really not so sure about the history of the LP and wanted to share my experience. I bought it back when it was brand new in good old New Jersey, either at Cheap Thrills in New Brunswick or at Korvette's (or whatever it was called at that time) at Blue Star/Watchung, and it was a DOUBLE ALBUM. No special import sticker, no special nothing at all. So I'm not so sure about this "pre-packaging into a single LP" stuff. Could it be that two versions of the record were available in the US right from the start? Half of Chalkhills got involved in the debate over good and bad music, square and non-square (C-Moon?), fogey and young, commercial and non-commercial, and it was very very enjoyable to read. But the best post on the entire topic (while not overlooking Kevin's excellent "in the eyes of a teen" view on what's good and what isn't) was T. "Over the Hedge" Lewis' fabulous "Who the hell IS that!?!" post. Yes, that is the true essence of discovering XTC or anything really good, and was exactly what I thought in 1980 when they played "Towers of London" and I just dropped my jaw. In fact, it was ALMOST my conversion to New Wave, but I "was already Catholic", so to speak. Squeeze had beaten XTC to the punch. My reaction, when I first heard "If I Didn't Love You" was, if I recall correctly: "Who the hell IS that!?!" And continuing with good and bad and commercial: Waddy Wachtel, producer of The Church's "Starfish", apparently given the thumbs up here as "acceptable music" (at least by Ben), is a man whose work can be seen on records as varied as James Taylor/Carly Simon to solo Beatles to Andrew Gold and Linda Ronstadt in the "Alison"/"It's So Easy" days. The man is all over the place. And I'm sure he's as proud of his work with Linda as he is with The Church. Where are the boundaries between good and bad? In everybody's own head, that's where! One last thought for today, then you can get on with your regular Chalkhills programming: Thanks all of you (especially Yoshiko) for the tips re. Move/ELO/Jeff Lynne, I'll have to follow this up. Since I was one of the ones who has treated Lynne poorly in this digest, I would just like to state my position. He tends to stamp everything he does with a loud *JEFF LYNNE*, but I too am a big fan of George Harrison's "Cloud Nine" as well as both Wilburys records. "When We Was Fab" is truly fab, a wonderful piece full of humor and a genuine compliment to the Beatles (and Ringo's playing is magnificent!). But both of the above projects were co-produced, and the song co-written by George. When you hear the Wilburys, what are your favorite songs, or better, what are your *least* favorite? My least favorite are always the Lynne numbers, because as good as he is, he -- like Paul McC to some extent -- seems, *nowadays*, to need the "mitigating" factor of another writer who takes out the "over-Lynneness" of his work. The Lynne production of "Free As A Bird"/"Real Love" was overblown and incredibly "un-Beatley", and far WORSE than "WWWF", although the former were "genuine" Beatles and the latter only a "tribute". I do like parts of "New World Record", though, although even then, I didn't see the real Beatles connection in the music that everyone constantly talked about (and just cuz he sings "like the Beatles in Hey Jude", or because Bev Bevan started using "pseudo-Ringo" fills doesn't make a song Beatley for me). I appreciate Lynne but feel that nowadays, he has a genuine Phil Collins-like problem, too sugary those hooks, they taste great the first few bites and then you get entirely sick and tired of them. Do what you will but harm none. - Jeff
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